Cayman and Captive Dolphins? Do you agree?

[robbcayman]

The public awareness argument holds no water for me. Captive dolphin programs are completely wrong. They're designed so a bunch of lazy tourists can interact with dolphins without having to actually go diving and wait to encounter them in the wild.

Do you really think for one second that anyone interacts with these dolphins and stops supporting the fishing industry that kills so many dolphins?? Not on your life. Some people already care enough to try to protect the dolphins, but for most, the encounter is not going to change the fact that they are lazy and can't be bothered to change their habits if it means inconvenience or price increases.

People who just don't give a damn about dolphins also don't give a damn about interacting with them, so there's no way they're going to be educated to stop destrying the environment. I see no benefit other than profits for some seedy company exploiting natural resources. The argument of education is just a rationalization.

Look at how lazy America is in terms of the environment...SUVs, relaxed pollution regulations, a basic unwillingness to inact any laws that get in the way of them doing exactly what they want, when they want, for as little money as possible. A swim with dolphins is not going to change that apathy. It's just going to be another easy, selfish activity they participated in on their vacation.

My opinion...

My only disagreement with what you said would you just assume all tourists are middle aged wealthy middle/ to above average income. What about small children who would really enjoy seeing a dolphin upclose because they aren't old enough dive? Or a disabled person who "can't" dive with dolphins"? What about scientific research that is done to observe dolphins behavior that benefit dolphins? There's a lot of variables to think about. With that being said, I agree if dolphins are being taken advantage of captivity should cease.

I think we're overlooking the bigger issue, most people don't seem to mind zoos but they get upset if dolphins are captive. What about other animals?? Should any animals be in captivity?? Just something to think about!! All of this is IMO of course.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

FWIW, I don't like zoos either. Most zoos are sadly inadequate. There are a few exceptions like the National Zoo, but even then, you just can't meet the habitat needs of many animals.

The really sad thing is that many animals will soon only be available in zoos because we can't keep ourselves from destroying ALL of their habitat as opposed to just the vast majority of their habitat.

To some extent, I think zoos are a necessary evil for research and animal preservation. I also think some degree of captive ocean mammals is necessary for the same reason. But some "Swim with dolphins" cage at a tropical destination in a largely unregulated country is not benefitting science or the animals.

As for zoos, I really don't think every town needs their own little zoo with sad, uncared for animals in little cages. There are way too many zoos because every town feels like they need their own. We need maybe 2 or 3 high quality zoos in the US.

 

[robbcayman]

FWIW, I don't like zoos either. Most zoos are sadly inadequate. There are a few exceptions like the National Zoo, but even then, you just can't meet the habitat needs of many animals.

The really sad thing is that many animals will soon only be available in zoos because we can't keep ourselves from destroying ALL of their habitat as opposed to just the vast majority of their habitat.

To some extent, I think zoos are a necessary evil for research and animal preservation. I also think some degree of captive ocean mammals is necessary for the same reason. But some "Swim with dolphins" cage at a tropical destination in a largely unregulated country is not benefitting science or the animals.

As for zoos, I really don't think every town needs their own little zoo with sad, uncared for animals in little cages. There are way too many zoos because every town feels like they need their own. We need maybe 2 or 3 high quality zoos in the US.

I agree!!! Good points.

 

[Xanthro]

The public awareness argument holds no water for me. Captive dolphin programs are completely wrong. They're designed so a bunch of lazy tourists can interact with dolphins without having to actually go diving and wait to encounter them in the wild.

Lazy tourists? Exactly how the hell is a disable person in a wheelchair or a 90 year old going to encounter dolphins in the wild? Magic?

Do you really think for one second that anyone interacts with these dolphins and stops supporting the fishing industry that kills so many dolphins??

Absolutely, since I've seen it happen to people. Support for items such as Dolphin safe tuna goes up greatly based on dolphin interaction.

Not on your life. Some people already care enough to try to protect the dolphins, but for most, the encounter is not going to change the fact that they are lazy and can't be bothered to change their habits if it means inconvenience or price increases.

Your prejudice against people you preceive as lazy is clouding your judgement.

People who just don't give a damn about dolphins also don't give a damn about interacting with them, so there's no way they're going to be educated to stop destrying the environment.

That statement just counters most of what you said before.

You question whether people interacting with dolphins will change their minds, then said people aren't going to interact with dolphins. Try to be consistent.

I see no benefit other than profits for some seedy company exploiting natural resources. The argument of education is just a rationalization.

You also haven't spent much time actually thinking about the issue, instead of ranting about lazy people.

Look at how lazy America is in terms of the environment...

Look, the word lazy again. See a pattern?

SUVs, relaxed pollution regulations, a basic unwillingness to inact any laws that get in the way of them doing exactly what they want, when they want, for as little money as possible. A swim with dolphins is not going to change that apathy. It's just going to be another easy, selfish activity they participated in on their vacation.

Again, contridicts what you just wrote.

"damn about dolphins also don't give a damn about interacting " means that they won't interact with Dolphins, but here you claim the opposite.

 

[cdiver2]

The public awareness argument holds no water for me. Captive dolphin programs are completely wrong. They're designed so a bunch of lazy tourists can interact with dolphins without having to actually go diving and wait to encounter them in the wild.

Do you really think for one second that anyone interacts with these dolphins and stops supporting the fishing industry that kills so many dolphins?? Not on your life. Some people already care enough to try to protect the dolphins, but for most, the encounter is not going to change the fact that they are lazy and can't be bothered to change their habits if it means inconvenience or price increases.

People who just don't give a damn about dolphins also don't give a damn about interacting with them, so there's no way they're going to be educated to stop destrying the environment. I see no benefit other than profits for some seedy company exploiting natural resources. The argument of education is just a rationalization.

Look at how lazy America is in terms of the environment...SUVs, relaxed pollution regulations, a basic unwillingness to inact any laws that get in the way of them doing exactly what they want, when they want, for as little money as possible. A swim with dolphins is not going to change that apathy. It's just going to be another easy, selfish activity they participated in on their vacation.

My opinion...

+

The argument of education is just a rationalization.

= excuse for doing what they in there hearts know is wrong.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

Lazy tourists? Exactly how the hell is a disable person in a wheelchair or a 90 year old going to encounter dolphins in the wild? Magic?

You're citing a case that I imagine is probably .00000001% of patrons of dolphin encounters. I don't imagine you see too many 90 year olds in wheel chairs taking tropical vactions in the first place, do you? The vast majority of people patronizing these things are just your average tourists who don't think about whether they are harming the animals or not because they are self-involved and really don't care whether it's good for the animals or not.

Absolutely, since I've seen it happen to people. Support for items such as Dolphin safe tuna goes up greatly based on dolphin interaction.

Dolphin safe tuna is a joke. I agree that they do little meaningless things like buy dolphin safe tuna because basically ALL tuna says it is dolphin safe and it doesn't cost more. So they do something that requires no effort and costs them nothing. But do they actually educate themselves to the plight of the oceans and do something about it? In the vast majority of cases, no way.

Your prejudice against people you preceive as lazy is clouding your judgement.

And your idealistic picture of an educated populace suddenly caring about the environment is clouding yours. We have had zoos and aquariums and wild animal encounters for years. Do you see the plight of animals or the environment getting any better? I wonder why McDonalds is still in business if people care so much about habitat destruction. I guess they do care about it as long as they can still get a burger at the drive through, which is...lazy.

Don't kid yourself. Laziness is the single biggest obstacle to environmental change, and Americans, the biggest environmental criminals, are notoriously lazy.

That statement just counters most of what you said before.

No it doesn't. There are tourists who think swimming with dolphins would be neat and then think "Oh dolphins are so cute...glad I buy dolphin free tuna" and are done with it, and then there are people who genuinely don't care whether they buy dolphin free tuna or canned dolphin. I'm talking about people with a real disdain for the environment and those who want to preserve it...in other words, yet another group to whom your excuse of "It's educational!" flat out does not apply.

You question whether people interacting with dolphins will change their minds, then said people aren't going to interact with dolphins. Try to be consistent.

Try to read what I wrote.

Look, the word lazy again. See a pattern?

Wow, a coherent theme to my post...I must be wrong...

Since you don't agree, but apparently can't come up with a cogent reason why not, you start nit picking my argument without making any real counterpoints that support your assertion that these captive dolphin programs are OVERALL a good thing. I agree in very specific cases, these encounters allow those with limited mobility, etc to see these animals. But does that balance out the net damage they cause? No way, in my opinion.

My guess? You just like to swim with the dolphins and want to find a way that it's OK. Well, you won't convince me, because I have done quite a bit of thinking about it. Have you?

 

[cdiver2]

Lazy tourists? Exactly how the hell is a disable person in a wheelchair or a 90 year old going to encounter dolphins in the wild? Magic?


Absolutely, since I've seen it happen to people. Support for items such as Dolphin safe tuna goes up greatly based on dolphin interaction.



Your prejudice against people you preceive as lazy is clouding your judgement.


That statement just counters most of what you said before.

You question whether people interacting with dolphins will change their minds, then said people aren't going to interact with dolphins. Try to be consistent.



You also haven't spent much time actually thinking about the issue, instead of ranting about lazy people.


Look, the word lazy again. See a pattern?



Again, contridicts what you just wrote.

"damn about dolphins also don't give a damn about interacting " means that they won't interact with Dolphins, but here you claim the opposite.

You think children and people in wheel chairs have a unalienable right to everything they want? Sorry not in my book. Children can dive when old enough and a lot of people in wheel chairs dive.

Now lets look at this in a different light. And advanced alien race finds earth and puts humans behind bars so that the public can view them. Never mind that the humans are not happy and live less than 1/2 there normal life span in the zoo, we must have them to show our children and invalids. Is that OK?

 

[Lisa0825]

It puzzles me how few people are against captive dolphins, but how aghast they are about a shark-riding video. IMO, both are things that should NOT happen.

 

[Coldblue]

If you've ever seen/dove with dolphins in the wild, to the full extent of the "wild" word, you'd understand in a blink of an eye that no facility designed and constructed based on all the research/data available to date would provide anything remotely adequate to keep such a creature in captivity, or semi captivity for that matter.

Research is a neccessary evil simply because it's hard to argue against knowledge, and its an activity driven by economic interests. However it's sad to see that there are already truckloads of research/knowledge confirming serious issues about economic practices endangering life in this planet (ours included) and there's practically no action to address such issues.
No one has come up with a compelling business model than would generate revenue from activities about environmental preservation, until that happens things will continue to get worse.

i don't believe for a second that having yet another dolphin facility will increase awareness about the species. If awareness is the issue, there's already plenty of dolphins in captivity and enough material about them to keep people reading/watching TV for days.
If you need to touch/see a dolphin before you're aware of the endagering nature of the species then you have a serious problem; the same problem that feeds that lack of action that is quietly driving this planet to destruction because people don't do anything until that close friend or relative suffers that deadly disease related to issues widely exposed by lots of research results. I don't want to be pessimistic but it's sadly true.

Why don't they openly accept that it's just economics of adding another attraction to increase tourism?

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

It puzzles me how few people are against captive dolphins, but how aghast they are about a shark-riding video. IMO, both are things that should NOT happen.

I couldn't agree more. Ditto with hanging onto sea turtles. Whatever happened to just enjoying an encouter with an animal and then leaving it alone so that other people may get the chance for the same encounter? *sigh*