Buoyancy/Trim for GIRLS !!!!

[FrenchFrog]

Thanks for all of your answers.
I have some mares avanti quattro fins, are they classified as buoyant ??
I put my BC as high as I can on the tank. I'm a little confused on the answers I got for that. Should I move my BC up to get the tank further back on my back or should I move my tank up to try to get the bottom of the tank closer to my body ???
I will try the weights on the tank to see how things improved.
Fin-pivot exercises: I discovered that for the first time with my AOW instructor, never heard of it during OW !!!. It was quite fun and I did pretty good with it but practicing more won't hurt !!! I also discovered reverse frogkick to back-up but I sucked real good at it, I kept going up as I was backing up (when I could backup !!!!, don't laugh now !!) rather than staying horizontally put, I need to practice that one too.
To be honest I wish I had been taught a lot of what I read in the posts. Nowadays it seems that getting your certification is just about: can you clear your mask ?? and can you remove your weight belt under water. Here you go, here is your license. You need a BC now. I have brand X and it is the best (because I get a volume discount on quantity). What happen to teaching people how to properly dive? I have been quite lucky as I did referral or advanced training with DM/Instructor with more than 10 years of diving under their belts whom actually will push you to be your best and will try to correct you as much as they can (I think it is a way of venting for the huge number of divers that they take diving that are not that good but think that they are. So when given the opportunity to train one. boy you are going to get it !!!!). Nothing wrong with that, I actually became friend with both of them but I still have to hear from either of them that I'm a good diver, so far there is always something wrong :11: and not enough time to fix it all as they still have to lead the dives.
So I will take all the advice possible to become better (and show them off next time, dang I guess it has become a matter of pride now !!!!)
Florabama, I can afford to lose 10 pound or may be I will need 1 more pound of weight, I'll be testing that too !!!! Do you dive with a group of people or dive club in Pensacola ??? I'm in Mississippi, up in the delta. I might be able to join in the fun down there. That is about as close to blue water as I can get from here.
Thanks again to all of you for answering my post. I'll be working on it till I decide that I'm happy with it.

FrenchFrog

 

[D_B]

Fins ... just see if they float or not
Tank ... at end of dive, the tank is pos. buoyant at that time by about 3.5 lbs so the farther down your tank is, the more It's pulling your feet up , think of a see/saw - ballance scale... your weight belt or pouches are the piviot point and your feet/head move up and down depending on where you slide the weight up or down on your body ... add a little weight closer to one end and that end goes down (or take weight off/add buoyancy to one end and that end goes up)
If you can remove the weight from the nonditch pockets and add it to your ditchable pockets, you may fix your feet high trim (you may have to add 1 or 2 lbs to help you on your safety stop .. "can barely stay at 15 feet at the end of the dive" )

DB

 

[mer]

Quattros definitely less negative than rubber fins like Jets. Anything with plastic in it will be less negative than a rubber fin.

Move your tank up, this means:
- valve closer to head
- move tank strap down tank
- bottom of tank will be farther from your knees

 

[ChrisA]

Here it goes:
I'm still trying to adjust my buoyancy and here are my problems:
Equipment: SP glide star BC, 3mm wetsuit, I have 4 pounds of weight in each ditchable pocket and 1.5 in each non-ditchable in the back.

Why did you split the weight? Why not put all the weight in the ditchable pockets?
The 1.5 pounds you have in the rear trim pockets are nearer your headthan the pockets
and will trim you head down. Move that weight downward. First try the pockets than maybe
a small 6 pound soft weight belt. As a last resort a four pound weight belt and two pounds of ankel weights.

If your total weight is correct then don't change that. Find a way to slightly move it
cloaser to your feet

 

[Florabama]

Thanks for all of your answers.
I have some mares avanti quattro fins, are they classified as buoyant ??
I put my BC as high as I can on the tank. I'm a little confused on the answers I got for that. Should I move my BC up to get the tank further back on my back or should I move my tank up to try to get the bottom of the tank closer to my body ???
I will try the weights on the tank to see how things improved.
Fin-pivot exercises: I discovered that for the first time with my AOW instructor, never heard of it during OW !!!. It was quite fun and I did pretty good with it but practicing more won't hurt !!! I also discovered reverse frogkick to back-up but I sucked real good at it, I kept going up as I was backing up (when I could backup !!!!, don't laugh now !!) rather than staying horizontally put, I need to practice that one too.
To be honest I wish I had been taught a lot of what I read in the posts. Nowadays it seems that getting your certification is just about: can you clear your mask ?? and can you remove your weight belt under water. Here you go, here is your license. You need a BC now. I have brand X and it is the best (because I get a volume discount on quantity). What happen to teaching people how to properly dive? I have been quite lucky as I did referral or advanced training with DM/Instructor with more than 10 years of diving under their belts whom actually will push you to be your best and will try to correct you as much as they can (I think it is a way of venting for the huge number of divers that they take diving that are not that good but think that they are. So when given the opportunity to train one. boy you are going to get it !!!!). Nothing wrong with that, I actually became friend with both of them but I still have to hear from either of them that I'm a good diver, so far there is always something wrong :11: and not enough time to fix it all as they still have to lead the dives.
So I will take all the advice possible to become better (and show them off next time, dang I guess it has become a matter of pride now !!!!)
Florabama, I can afford to lose 10 pound or may be I will need 1 more pound of weight, I'll be testing that too !!!! Do you dive with a group of people or dive club in Pensacola ??? I'm in Mississippi, up in the delta. I might be able to join in the fun down there. That is about as close to blue water as I can get from here.
Thanks again to all of you for answering my post. I'll be working on it till I decide that I'm happy with it.

FrenchFrog

FF, the reason I asked about the fin-pivot is because, if you can do the fin-pivot excercises, you don't have a problem with your legs floating.

Think about it.

With the fin-pivot, your fins stay on the bottom. That's the whole point of the excercise. If they are not stayiing on the bottom, then you are not having success with the excercise. If they are, then your problem is, as your instructor said, more about relaxing and proper weighting than anything else.

Is there some place you can get back in the pool and try this excercise again? I am appalled that you never heard of it until you got to AOW. I am a Dive Master and we never let a student get out of OW without mastering it. Buoyancy is critical to enjoying diving and it's ashamed that they let you get through OW without mastering it. This sort of shoddy instruction is why people leave diving, IMO. Whoever let you get through OW without doing this should be disbarred from instructiing new divers.

Remember, the fin pivot should be done with an empty BC. You should be on your stomach on the bottom of the pool with your legs extended straight out behind you. You should only have enough weight to keep you down when you exhale. When you inhale, your upper torso should rise off the bottom, with your legs still straigh out behind you, but your fin tips should stay on the bottom; when you exhale you should sink back to the bottom hence the name "fin-pivot." Inhale rise; exhale sink with your body straight as an arrow. That's how it should work and does work in real diving.

If, as you say, you can do this, you don't have a problem with your legs floating. Its something else.

 

[monagirl]

Same old same old .. but it is obviously a big issue for some of us girls!

I have no idea what is right or wrong, but I think that sometimes there is a misconception about weight, size and buoyancy. I have 30 dives. I am 5'7" weigh 122kg. I wear a two piece 5.5mm suit (and yes that is even in the summer in the Middle East.. I get really cold, but it is new) .. I have rubber fins .. 2x6lbs on my hips, 2lbs on my back and 2x2lbs in my pockets. I use nearly as much air ay 5m as I do at 20m trying to keep my legs in place. At a horizontal position I can hover at 3m, but in a vertical position with NO AIR in by BCD .. I just float to the surface. I could just stay horizontally, but when my instructor decided to spot check me and was "out of air" what choice did I have? I really do not want to miss a saftey stop in open water because I can not keep my buoyancy in a vertical position!

I have just come back from Eilat and am gonna put in some buoyancy practice before sinai at the end of the month, but I keep being told opposite things. Most divers and my instructor say you dont need ankle weights and most people I dive with say "she doesnt have enough weight" (these are all qualified to PADI divemaster level, but are not aware of the weights I carry). I can keep my legs in a horizontal position, but only because I try, naturally they will rise to a 60 degree angle mainly in shallow water(under 8/10m). I can do the fin pivot with ease both in the pool and in the sea, although I have a slight tilt because my BCD is S not XS (rectified today as I just bought one). I can keep good buoyance during search and recovery, I have no problem in wrecks, I have never touched the coral or messed the sand with my fins .. WHAT IS MY PROBLEM???

Sorry it is so long, but I am trying to give all the information.

 

[D_B]

If you can not stay down at the end of your dive ... "with NO AIR in by BCD .. I just float to the surface." ... then you don't have enough weight.
Buoyancy does not matter what your attitude in the water is (that is your trim and has nothing to do with whether your pos. or neg. buoyant)

Add just a pound and recheck your buoyancy at the end of a dive

DB

 

[Charlie99]

At a horizontal position I can hover at 3m, but in a vertical position with NO AIR in by BCD .. I just float to the surface. ....I really do not want to miss a saftey stop in open water because I can not keep my buoyancy in a vertical position!

It's best to get overall weighting right before going into a lot of effort on getting weight location / trim right.

If you are not finning, you don't have air in your BCD, and you float to the surface, then you don't have enough weight.

To be absolutely sure that you aren't finning, you might try crossing your ankles or grabbing your fin tips with your hands. Since you can do fin pivots in a pool, it's likely that you are unconsciously finning at the 3m safety stop.

When you get your overall weighting sorted out and start working on trim, the first thing I'd recommend is that you move the weight out of your BCD trim pockets down onto your weight belt, since most trim pockets are higher up. This isn't what you need if your hips&thighs or feet tend to rise.

 

[monagirl]

Thank you both
Wednesday is my day back in the water, if the conditiions are good enough that is. So I will play with the weights and see how I get on. I have three weeks to get it right or at least improve significantly!

 

[Azza]

Also my legs and ankles tend to float, can't stay horizontal by the end of the dive.

Ok my 0.02c

The majority of women I have trained, helped train and dived with have floaty ankles. Its just a woman thing. However that can be an immense help with good trim, and I find once women nail their buoyancy, they do so better than men.

It sounds to me like you need to move your weight down your body. If you are in a horizontal position underwater your legs tend to float up right?
If you move the weight further down, say in a weightbelt around your waist, and assume the horizontal position you may find that it will keep your butt and ankles down. You can bend your knees so your ankles are closer to your butt and the weight belt will have more effect. Just give it a try and see how you get on.
If possible get a friend to come with you, in a swimming pool, and move weight up and down your body, and practise with your legs straight and bent, to get an idea where it would be best placed. As others have suggested you can also strap some weight to the bottom of the tank. I would say maybe 2 pounds on the tank bottom, and four pounds around your waist, placed toward the front of the weight belt. This means the weight is nearer to your centre of gravity, which is your belly button.

If you cant hold a 15 ft stop with no air in your BCD then I think you will find you need more weight. Do a buoyancy check at the surface, with a near empty tank.
Fully deflate your BCD, and holding half a lungfull of air in your lungs, you should float at or near eye level. Breathe out and you should sink. If you dont then you need more weight. Add more as needed until you can acheive the eye level float and breath out sink.

I hope this is some help to you.
Azza