Steel vs aluminum 40 for redundant: which is better?

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I am sure team diving works great if you're located in an area that has that option. Not everywhere does.
Team diving wasn't an option in my area before 2001 when some of us got together and made it an option. But go ahead, keep telling me that what we accomplished was a fluke and couldn't be repeated anywhere else. 🙄

Be the change you want to see in the world. Or sit back and let things happen to you. Your choice.
 
Team diving wasn't an option in my area before 2001 when some of us got together and made it an option. But go ahead, keep telling me that what we accomplished was a fluke and couldn't be repeated anywhere else. 🙄

Be the change you want to see in the world. Or sit back and let things happen to you. Your choice.

Believe it or not there are ppl who dive in the northeast with a team diving mindset…

It is 100% a better way to dive
 
For stages/deco bottles I only use Al to avoid massive changes in my buoyancy compared to standard kit.
 
Team diving wasn't an option in my area before 2001 when some of us got together and made it an option. But go ahead, keep telling me that what we accomplished was a fluke and couldn't be repeated anywhere else. 🙄

Be the change you want to see in the world. Or sit back and let things happen to you. Your choice.

Why do you just gloss over anything anyone says or questions we ask and just keep repeating yourself? That's not really a debate, it's just you talking without seeing a different perspective. At the very least I'm willing to see the merit in what you say, and there is merit.

Fun GUE story told by a friend; He's coming out of a cave to a GUE disciple sitting alone at ~ 20'. My friend has 100% so he does his gas switch and completes his deco. GUE guy still sitting there. When the guy came out some time later my friend asked him what was wrong, he said he had become lost from his team and since protocol was to do gas switches with a team member to verify the switch he had to deco on backgas.

That (to me) sums up GUE really well. Is verifying gas switches a good idea?, absolutely. Is there ever a time and place where maybe it's not going to happen or can't? 100%. This poor guy sat for a good while underwater when a better gas was inches from his face. How hard would it have been to trace the hose, do it twice even, and verify? So entrenched in the dogma he lost sight of the mission. Couldn't think outside the GUE "box".

Believe it or not there are ppl who dive in the northeast with a team diving mindset…

But all the mates who tie us in are solo. If it was such a great thing maybe you should tell the captains they should have 2 mates tie us in on every dive as a team:). Lol.. they've been doing it that way for what? 50 years?

Not saying there aren't teams or buddies but more often then not there's not. And it still works.

I personally do dive with buddies just for fun, but we get separated all the time. I'm also not a complete moron, when I get separated my willingness to push the dive and get myself in tight spots changes. You have to be aware of your surroundings and adapt.

A GUE guy would freak out if he lost his team (and I guess end the dive?!?), me on the other hand (and I'm sure plenty of others but I'll only speak for myself) change the dive plan and enjoy what we came there to see and do.

It is 100% a better way to dive
Not in every situation all the time, and what happens when you get separated from the team? Then your just like the rest of us!:) It is bound to happen at some point, might as well learn to be comfortable with it.
 
Why do you just gloss over anything anyone says or questions we ask and just keep repeating yourself? That's not really a debate, it's just you talking without seeing a different perspective. At the very least I'm willing to see the merit in what you say, and there is merit.

Fun GUE story told by a friend; He's coming out of a cave to a GUE disciple sitting alone at ~ 20'. My friend has 100% so he does his gas switch and completes his deco. GUE guy still sitting there. When the guy came out some time later my friend asked him what was wrong, he said he had become lost from his team and since protocol was to do gas switches with a team member to verify the switch he had to deco on backgas.

That (to me) sums up GUE really well. Is verifying gas switches a good idea?, absolutely. Is there ever a time and place where maybe it's not going to happen or can't? 100%. This poor guy sat for a good while underwater when a better gas was inches from his face. How hard would it have been to trace the hose, do it twice even, and verify? So entrenched in the dogma he lost sight of the mission. Couldn't think outside the GUE "box".



But all the mates who tie us in are solo. If it was such a great thing maybe you should tell the captains they should have 2 mates tie us in on every dive as a team:). Lol.. they've been doing it that way for what? 50 years?

Not saying there aren't teams or buddies but more often then not there's not. And it still works.

I personally do dive with buddies just for fun, but we get separated all the time. I'm also not a complete moron, when I get separated my willingness to push the dive and get myself in tight spots changes. You have to be aware of your surroundings and adapt.

A GUE guy would freak out if he lost his team (and I guess end the dive?!?), me on the other hand (and I'm sure plenty of others but I'll only speak for myself) change the dive plan and enjoy what we came there to see and do.


Not in every situation all the time, and what happens when you get separated from the team? Then your just like the rest of us!:) It is bound to happen at some point, might as well learn to be comfortable with it.

On deeper stuff 2 ppl go in to do the tie in…

There are so many assumptions in your post it’s hard to know where to start

The “dogma” I hear far more often than any “gue dogma” is “our environment is so different from everywhere else we can’t possibly do things any other way”
 
Damn this threads a mess.
"You don't need redundancy there."
"Get doubles."
"You're too stupid to figure out how to bail to the other bottle without $1200 in training."

Typical scubapolice board.

There's plenty of rec dives that are getting kinda hairy. But don't need doubles, or you'll be the only one on the boat in doubles, which can suck.

AL40 is the way to go. Trims out nice full and empty. And plenty of air to bail, or extend.

You don't need special training to sling a bottle. I'm pretty sure that you can figure it out.
 
Because more often than not the desire to use a pony bottle implies other underlying issues like not being comfortable with the gear, dive plan, buddies, or statistics (there is little correlation between gear failure and fatalities).

This thread is an exception - the OP must comply with some obscure boat rules - but it does not change the fact that doubles or sidemounted configurations are better long-term options for solo or self-reliant diving.

I'll flip your question back at you: why does someone always advocate for a pony bottle when there are better solutions?

Simple answer: Doubles aren't required or convenient.

A singles rig, with an Al40 still dives like a singles rig.
 
single tank with a pony bottle is a far better answer than putting a ~newish diver in doubles or god forbid ocean sidemount.

that being said it's even better to learn to dive well as a buddy team and look after one another because a pony doesn't provide a backup brain
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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