Steel vs aluminum 40 for redundant: which is better?

[flymolo]

How the **** did GUE come into this conversation?

It's always that way because when people suggest better diving practices they get shot down by other people saying those practices don't suit the environment or whatever and theyve been doing things a certain way for 50 years so they must be right blah blah blah but gue is closed minded and can't think outside the box

 

[mr_v]

@rob.mwpropane — This thread has nothing to do with GUE or any other agency. It has nothing with aboslute rules or calling scuba police. The root of this six page novel is simple - some people believe that while diving with a pony is okay, there are better solutions for redundancy.

Also, the GUE story you've mentioned sounds a bit made up to make a point.

With that, happy Monday y'all!

 

[grf88]

How the **** did GUE come into this conversation?

Because somebody gave a typical GUE response to the use of a pony bottle.

 

[broncobowsher]

It’s 2024

Someone pass the

Need something to wash that down with.

 

[FishWatcher747]

Why the suggestion that keeps arising that people who choose a pony somehow do not know what they are doing or are not competent is frankly insulting.

Agree with @grf88. Here is the training needed to make a competent single tank recreational diver into a competent recreational diver with a side slung pony.

Go on recreational dive with single tank. Every 5 minutes switch between primary reg and octo.

Now sling pony with reg bungeed to pony. Go diving.

The idea that this is rocket surgery is puzzling.

 

[boulderjohn]

For stages/deco bottles I only use Al to avoid massive changes in my buoyancy compared to standard kit.

I, too, only use aluminum or stages or deco bottles, but it has nothing to do with changes in buoyancy during the dive. I don't understand what changes you are talking about. Could you please explain?

 

[LFMarm]

I, too, only use aluminum or stages or deco bottles, but it has nothing to do with changes in buoyancy during the dive. I don't understand what changes you are talking about. Could you please explain?

Agree, no changes during the dive. I meant small changes of my overall buoyancy compared to diving without those stage/deco bottles.

 

[boulderjohn]

Agree, no changes during the dive. I meant small changes of my overall buoyancy compared to diving without those stage/deco bottles.

Got it.

The problem with using steel for me is the overall weight. When I am diving with steel doubles (etc.), my overall weight is a problem for me. Diving with a drysuit, I use an aluminum backplate to lessen the total weight, but I still have to have a significant amount of air in the wing at the beginning of the dive to compensate for weight of the gas I will be using during the dive. Carrying deco and stage gas in steel bottles would add to that problem.

 

[tursiops]

Agree, no changes during the dive. I meant small changes of my overall buoyancy compared to diving without those stage/deco bottles.

The added weight in-water of a full AL 40 (with valve and reg and gas) is about 3 pounds, and even if emptied it does not go positive. It hardly needs any adjusting for.

 

[-JD-]

The added weight in-water of a full AL 40 (with valve and reg and gas) is about 3 pounds, and even if emptied it does not go positive. It hardly needs any adjusting for.

AL-19,27,40 are not much of of an issue. I did find a AL80, through its swing from full to "empty", takes a bit more compensation during extensive pass-the-bottles exercises doing ITT. Tossing around one of my HP100s would probably be a good bit more noticeable, in that the cylinder and reg combination is always going to be significantly negative.

One note I will add is:

• One needs to be sufficiently weighted to support a stop with the most buoyant case of no slung bottle or an "Empty" slung bottle at "empty"-backgass.
• One needs to have sufficient primary (BC) and "reserve" (drysuit, redundant bladder) buoyancy to support (or at bare minimum be able to kick-up) all gas-sources full, at worst-case depth (i.e. factoring in wetsuit compression).
• This of course all ties in with the full-swing buoyancy characteristics of the chosen slung cylinder.

(While I realize handing-off a slug pony at depth is a rare edge case, it remains one of the potential benefits of that method, but should be prepared for.)