BP/W are banned! And other fun things I've learned on my first chartered dive ...

[MikeFerrara]

I'm not asking him to teach me DIR-F in the shop, but if we're talking about my safety underwater, I'd like the person to be familiar with different equipment and methods. For example, I switched veterinarians because my old vet (an old horse doctor from Cornell) would recommend a steriod shot for my cat's allergies, whereas my new vet (younger small animal specialist from Cornell) would use an inhaler so the steriods didn't get in the muscle tissue, and went directly into the lungs. New methods, new equipment, better and safer results. So some new technology can be a good thing. But yes, some is just marketing and selling gear.

Lets look at a more applicable example. I'll use myself. I was an instructor and a dive shop owner before I ever heard of DIR or knew there was such a thing as a bp/wing. I didn't get my first glimpse of that stuff until I was on my second technical instructor. Though I had dne my homework, taken all the tests and read everything on diving that I could find, I never came accross it. Of course we weren't on the net at the time either. I certainly hadn't intentionally remained ignorant and knowingly endanger the lives of my students or other customers.

Well, all those things interest me. I expect my DIVE INSTRUCTOR to have information about DIVING. Or tell me he doesn't know about that specialty but he'll find someone who can answer my questions. If he can't do that, he could be called an UNEDUCATED DIVE GEAR SALESMAN and wear an appropriate badge.

Your instructor does have information about diving but maybe not all information related to all diving. You can expect whatever you want but why should he research a field that he doesn't know exists or doesn't think is relevant to the field he's in. Were you willing to pay for that service?

Things might be changing some with agencies like PADI getting into technical training but traditionally technical diving, and even DIR haven't just been specialties within recreational diving. They've been a completely different world.

I think your next post said what's really up, which has to do with selling gear and staying in business.

It certainly does work like that sometimes but hogarthian and DIR are small enough that a rec diver or even a rec diving pro can miss it completely.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Jeez, where do I begin? I wish I had the time, because I disagree with a lot you have written.



I read somewhere (damned if I can find it, but I'll keep looking) that tech sales account for 40% of equipment sales. Seems kinda high, but check the cash dumped in this thread.... These are the dollars I'm talking about.

You seem to have the impression that shops make money by teaching. I don't know of any that do. Instructors are there to create customers. It's the gear sales that support the LDS, not instruction.

Having owned a shop for a time, I know exactly what I made money on.

For the most part, it's gear that already existis in the LDS. If it's not in stock, it can be ordered.

C'mon Mike, you know there's a lot more to it than that. I started down the tech road after certifying as a DCS and dumping $2500 into my rec gear. Since then, I've invested another 3K and have barely scratched the surface of what I'll need.

What "lost opportunities"? The LDS runs students through OW, every specialty course they can imagine, AOW and then what??? Ah yes, we sell them the DM course and make them an instructor after that. Great for a few people who want to go pro, a waste of money for the majority who don't. How about introducing them to tech instead?

Tech diving is a natural transistion for divers wanting to progress. It's quite different from rec diving, but uses much of the same gear. It isn't a replacement for OW or even AOW, it is the next step.

I probably started in technical diving much like you did. I took lik ALL the PADI course thinking I was really learning diving. I became an instructor and even opened a dive shop. Then I strted in technical diving and learned about the whole other world that no one ever told me existed.

I disagree that technical diving is a natural progression from mainstream training. I'd recommend that anyone interested in technical diving get with the right people right from the start and that isn't your typical dive shop. I think that GUE does start to prepare divers for technical training. However, I don't think that most of the other agencies do. Going through a whole bunch of rec courses as taught at most shops is a total wast of time for a diver with tech interests. In fact I think it's a wast of time for any divers though the pure rec divers may never find out.

If you do it like I did you'll have to start over from the beginning including with your equipment.

"It's a cult and just stupid" was the reply I got from the LDS manager after inquiring into DIR last year. This was clearly the voice of ignorance and he now has no credibility with me.

I know plenty of experience tech and cave divers who have the very same opinion. You think they're ignorant but they'd think you were a cultist who had too much coolaid.

I took Essential through an out of state shop and ended up purchasing $200 of equipment while I was there. There is money to be made that does not take from existing business or threaten instruction staff.

You still don't understand what I'm trying to point out. From now on, how many "conventional BC's do you think you'll be buying? Retractors? What do you think about the way your dive shop labels tanks (maybe you won't get to that until rec trimix or tech 1)? How many air2 or dedicated octos will you be purchasing? Octo holders? Expensive dive knives? I could go on and on but your LDS missed the oportunity to sell you a whole $200 worth of stuff in the act of teaching you not to use just about all the rest of his inventory. He wouldn't make his SP and AL sales requirements that way.

The LDS should exist to support divers, not dictate the type of diving they think they should be doing.

What makes you think that? A dive shop is in biusiness to sell what they choose to sell and teach the courses they choose to teach. They don't get paid to do or know anything else. They are NOT dictating what kind of diving you must unless they can somhow force you to do business with them. If you go to PADI shop who is a SP dealer, you can expect to be offered PADI classes and sold SP equipment. Why should they even mention GUE or Halcyon. When did they ever obligate themselves to do anything else? You don't go to a Ford dealer to buy a Chevy do you?

I'll let you in on something else. It can cost a LOT of money to get another line of equipment into a shop. You don't just call up whatever manufacturer you want and buy a reg here or a BC there. When I had a shop SP wanted about an 18K opening order to open you up. AL wanted about 13K. DUI insisted that you purchase 6 rental suits...That you couldn't sell for a certain period of time. Most manufacturers require minimum anual sales volumes to keep you on as a dealer. Some want to require you to stock their entire line while others insist that you not carry certain other brands or dedicate a certain percentage of your floor space to their product. More than once I had a sales rep stand in the store that I started from scratch with my own money and tell me how I was going to run my business and threatened to refuse to sell to me if I didn't comply. They went as far as to tell me what and how to teach as well as how to price those classes and I tossed more than one of them out on their ear too. LOL Some manufacturers are more unreasonable than others but the bottom line is that all but the biggest and richest shops are limited in how many brands they can carry. I wasn't able to have SP or AL but I had zeagle. Why would I talk up SP regs when I couldn't have got my hands on one if I wanted it? I would have tried to sell you a Zeagle. I was a PADI instructor and an IANTD instructor so if you were looking for training I would have tried to sell you a PADI course or an IANTD course...and NOT a GUE course. Why would you expect otherwise?