That's quite true as well, no doubt.
Berating an "Instructor" on a dive boat. How should I have handled differently?
- Thread starter BugHunterNY
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That's quite true as well, no doubt.
OP
BugHunterNY
Contributor
I think it depends on the diver. I've seen some people with impressive "actually achieved" c cards that, once viewed in the water, make you think they were from kinko's. Others have no cards, but experience in spades and can handle everything.
Personally, I'm neither. Not a zero to hero, but working through cert cards alongside as much relevant diving as possible. Supplementing that with as much reading from the pioneers of our industry as I can in addition to as much input, advice and instruction along the way from those who have come before - and the [mostly] respectable bunch here
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waterpirate
Contributor
Sooo, You and your buddy went down to Pompano and made the mistake every first timer to Pompano makes. Get your a$$ off the pontoon boat. I did it, crap we all did it. There are great operators in Pompano that run pontoons as well as 6 paks, and some truly great operators that only run 6 paks. IMHO if you dive with mupppets, you get muppets.
Next time you go down, get on the smaller boat, get deeper, and hot drop. Maybe the operator will get the opportunity to berate you on the boat?
YMMV
Eric
Next time you go down, get on the smaller boat, get deeper, and hot drop. Maybe the operator will get the opportunity to berate you on the boat?
YMMV
Eric
OP
BugHunterNY
Contributor
Sooo, You and your buddy went down to Pompano and made the mistake every first timer to Pompano makes. Get your a$$ off the pontoon boat. I did it, crap we all did it. There are great operators in Pompano that run pontoons as well as 6 paks, and some truly great operators that only run 6 paks. IMHO if you dive with mupppets, you get muppets.
Next time you go down, get on the smaller boat, get deeper, and hot drop. Maybe the operator will get the opportunity to berate you on the boat?
YMMV
Eric
Not my first time down there. Regularly dive with Emerald Charters, the Narcosis among others. This was a last minute trip during a heavy vacation week. These guys had the only available spots Saturday morning when we were calling around Friday afternoon... See my earlier comment... To dive or not to dive, I'm getting wet.
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waterpirate
Contributor
The 5 P's would have prevented that. If I had to get wet, I would have wandered over to blue heron bridge, before I got on a pontoon boat with 34 of my closest freinds with bad trim and fin tecnique. They flipped a crowded pontoon boat in Hilsborough inlet a couple years ago. All things to think about.
No matter what got you on the poseiden pontoon boat. If you choose to dive with muppets, keep your trap sewed shut.
YMMV
Eric
No matter what got you on the poseiden pontoon boat. If you choose to dive with muppets, keep your trap sewed shut.
YMMV
Eric
fdarden
Contributor
Save your breath for yelling at the numerous fishing boats that will inevitably greet you at the surface being drawn in by the sight of the dive flag. They won't listen to you either but you will possibly feel more satisfied.
Well... just to sketch a context for you, I've been diving for 30 years, I'm a highly experienced wreck diver, an experienced technical diver and an experienced instructor, not to mention having some some "real world" skills. This isn't to brag about anything, just to give you an idea of who is writing this.
My first clue to your attitude was when you said you debated cutting the line. This tells me that you are more concerned with "being right" than the lives of the people you may have endangered as a result of this need. If I had been busy with a dive and you had cut my line because you disagreed with me about where/how to attach it, I may have (metaphorically) embedded my reel up the the elbow in to your anal cavity after the dive. And you would have deserved it. When you are under water, being right or being wrong is *vastly* insubordinate to making sure everyone comes back safely. If there is one thing you need to remember about this thread. This is it. During the dive, if you had serious safety concerns about a certain lay then you could have done yourself and the other divers an honour by waiting for the group to come back out and to keep a sharp eye out for anyone who was likely to get entangled (which I assume was the risk you saw).
People can make mistakes, either because they don't know better or in some cases because they don't care. If someone makes a poor lane change on the freeway, you don't go full rage-mode on them and run them off the road. On a dive you don't do that either!
That said, while you didn't set out to engage the instructor in a debate about it, I believe you had, from your description, a couple of good points that could have been and probably should have been brought up. You had a chance to do that by starting with the following question: "why did you lay your line the way you did?"
The "why" question always does 2 things. (1) it gives you the space to understand what the heck was going through their mind and to form a picture of their abilities and limitations and (2) it gives you lots of little clues as to areas where you can say something that might help. It also lets you know if you're dealing with someone who doesn't know better or doesn't care.
How would I have dealt with it?
It may have gone like this:
me (to buddy): did you see that sloppy line work?
instructor: that was my line
me: do you mind if I ask you why you attached it like that?
instructor: <blah blah blah>
me: I understand. If it were me I might have done <ABC> instead in order to reduce the risk of someone getting tangled in it.
instructor: <blah blah blah>
me: I see. Why did you do your tie offs like that?
instructor: <blah blah blah>
me: that's an unusual approach. Normally people do <ABC>
etc etc etc.
The point is the goal you're trying to reach. Do you want to win the conversation or do you want to share knowledge? Political debates are about 98% "sending" because they want to win the debate. That might look "tough" and "determined" on TV but actually has zero didactic value. It's also not the point of political debate. This is what we're used to seeing on TV.
If you want to teach someone something, especially if they think they already know it, then you need a different skill set.
R..
LiteHedded
Contributor
you tell us
KD8NPB
Contributor
Newbies don't belong inside a wreck without a Wreck Diver certification...
I am not familiar with the wreck ln question and as a general rule I agree with you. However, not all overheads are created equal and, assuming they are already at least OW, there are situations where I might go through one with a fairly new diver.
-Local quarry has a bus. Side and front doors are off. Seats are all gone. There is no silt. It is technically an overhead environment. If they want to swim through it we will do so.
-There are a couple of wrecks with very short swim throughs, you can see the light ahead of you. Again no silt. If they are comfortable with going through, and we will have checked this out ahead of time, we will swim through.
Note this is as a buddy pair or threesome. Not leading a large group.
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