Berating an "Instructor" on a dive boat. How should I have handled differently?

[DeepSeaExplorer]

As long as it wasn't an overhead class, I don't see an issue with it. If the student eventually decides to take a class that involves reels, I'm sure his instructor will show him the proper technique. As far as endangering others, they shouldn't be in there if they can't deal with a minor obstacle.

On the flip side, never cut someone else's line. That's a bigger cardinal sin than improper line placement and poor technique. If you do, then YOU are the irresponsible one. Yeah, maybe his line kills someone, that's on him. If you cut his line, and he doesn't make it back, it's on YOU, regardless of how much of an idiot he may have been.

It happens to everyone. I accidently reeled out on my best buddy once. I laid the line, and it was my reel, so I picked it up as we were exiting, forgetting that we had changed positions and he was behind me. I realized what I was doing half way thru and reached back and handed him the reel since the tunnel was too tight to pass. He laughed thru his reg. After the dive, I got some good natured ribbing. And, I invented a new technique - the primary reel relay.

 

[Steve_C]

If the student eventually decides to take a class that involves reels, I'm sure his instructor will show him the proper technique

I would not bet on it. My experience has been that instructors who teach it right usually do it right.

Was diving a NC wreck in 90 ft of water. A LDS had a class on board. I know for a fact that their entire instruction was "practice using reels." The part of the wreck they were around began looking like a drunken spider was there. Saw a fellow swimming through open water running lines 30 ft from anything. Got tired of dodging the lines and went to a different part of the wreck. At the end of the dive I know that they received zero instruction or evaluation. Just got to check that box. This is also a shop that does not emphasize buoyancy and I have seen their AOW students silting up a ledge. Have seen them have check out dives with no debriefing. Have seen some of their AOW students use up three spaces when suiting up. I now avoid being on boats with their classes if at all possible.

I kept my mouth shut. But if people ask me I recommend a different LDS especially for instruction.

I also kept my mouth shut in Jules where a NJ wreck diving instructor had a scuba review student who had buoyancy problems. She would get down and then float up. He kept putting more and more and more weight on her.

 

[C Dub]

Seems like, just in real life, the phrase "praise publically, criticize privately" would have been a better approach.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I would not bet on it...
I also kept my mouth shut in Jules where a NJ wreck diving instructor had a scuba review student who had buoyancy problems. She would get down and then float up. He kept putting more and more and more weight on her.

I'm assuming this is not an overhead instructor and the student would be with a different instructor for that. But, I know what you mean, I've seen some bad stuff.

Jules? That reminds me of a dive at the Jules Undersea Lodge... I went there once to test some gear. It took me 15 minutes to talk them into letting me dive solo. I didn't know they had an IE just finishing up in there. Imagine almost 20+ instructor candidates finning up the fine silt on the bottom. Some one signaled to end the dive and they literally went vertical all at once and it was like a Saturn V taking off.

 

[tomfcrist]

I would not bet on it...
I also kept my mouth shut in Jules where a NJ wreck diving instructor had a scuba review student who had buoyancy problems. She would get down and then float up. He kept putting more and more and more weight on her.

I'm assuming this is not an overhead instructor and the student would be with a different instructor for that. But, I know what you mean, I've seen some bad stuff.

Jules? That reminds me of a dive at the Jules Undersea Lodge... I went there once to test some gear. It took me 15 minutes to talk them into letting me dive solo. I didn't know they had an IE just finishing up in there. Imagine almost 20+ instructor candidates finning up the fine silt on the bottom. Some one signaled to end the dive and they literally went vertical all at once and it was like a Saturn V taking off.

Lmao. Not all instructors (or ITCs for that matter) are created equal.
When we get a new DM candidate that has never dove with us before their first impression is that I am a buoyancy nazi... I tell them "I can deal with crappy trim, but if you can't dive neutral you have no business diving ". They generally get the point. If they don't, their DM course becomes rather painful...for them.

 

[DennisS]

That's not the way we do it up north

 

[drrich2]

Should I have continued on with him until he accepted he was wrong?

A number of ScubaBoard heated debate threads illustrate a fact of life; trying to continue on to somebody until he admits he is wrong is going to end badly. On the forum, that'll be after a few pages of angry bickering likely changing no minds as debaters vie for mindshare amongst spectators for their views.

When you attack someone (which you did), it is human nature that his focus goes from figuring out the right thing to do to protecting his ego. I don't mean 'ego' in the puffed up narcissistic sense, but rather in the sense of self/dignity sense.

Consider these excerpts from your part of the interaction (I'll bold some parts of interest):

I start debriefing with my buddy and just blasting the "moron" who could have gotten several novice divers in serious trouble. The guy literally right behind me says oh, that was my reel.

That was his introduction to you. I suspect at the point you'd already lost much of your chance to reach him.

Trying to restrain myself, I calmly try and give him a few suggestions. I might have been a little heated, and there may have been a little attitude, but I do believe I was using a friendly teaching, not a scolding tone.

I'm gonna take a wild guess here that you did not come across friendly. You still seem heated and with some attitude as you post some time after the fact.

At that point, I'm stunned. I've already talked down to this guy about how what he did was dangerous and offered suggestions about how to do it more safely [in front of his student, who definitely heard everything]. I don't say another word. I simply look at him for a second and turn back around to my buddy and exit that conversation.

I'm glad this didn't break out in a fist fight.

I get the sense you believed you were doing the right thing, trying to help people. It's often hard to know just when to let well enough alone. I've thought over your post and responses to it for awhile. In real life, there are a number of people doing dangerous things we do not accost. Consider:

1.) Fat people (disclaimer: I'm chunky) at buffets.

2.) Smokers.

3.) Obviously pregnant women smoking.

4.) Parents taking chubby little kids into fast food joints.

I respect what you were trying to do. I suspect the way you went about it may have gotten in the way of what you hoped to accomplish. Sadly, sometimes we need to let endangered people be.

Richard.

 

[Steve_C]

Jules? That reminds me of a dive at the Jules Undersea Lodge... I went there once to test some gear. It took me 15 minutes to talk them into letting me dive solo. I didn't know they had an IE just finishing up in there. Imagine almost 20+ instructor candidates finning up the fine silt on the bottom. Some one signaled to end the dive and they literally went vertical all at once and it was like a Saturn V taking off.

Funny

For what it is worth, Jules now accepts solo cards, no other questions asked. (My SDI card says solo.)

 

[pensacolaracer]

I am glad there are guys like you out there... Looking out for the safety of guys like me.

Don't go and break your arm patting yourself on the back. If I ever see you, I'll pat your back for you .... Unless I'm completely tangled in reel line run from inside the huge area of the wreck trek.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Parents taking chubby little kids into fast food joints.