Wreck Diver Certification (Blindfolded reel-in)

[Wibble]

Sorry to ask an off-topic question; when, on the PADI Wreck course, are you required to lay a line into a wreck?

Am curious as most wrecks have swim-throughs or dead ends that are barely longer than a few feet. It’s pretty uncommon to come across a large overhead corridor with multi-deck navigation, certainly in vintage shipwrecks. For those wrecks that do require navigation, a simple “Wreck” course is clearly inadequate; you need full cave skills and techniques. These are very much rigorous technical diving courses with a lot of skills practice which you wouldn’t get on a recreational taster “course”.

 

[boulderjohn]

Sorry to ask an off-topic question; when, on the PADI Wreck course, are you required to lay a line into a wreck?

Dive Four A
• Plan and perform an actual wreck penetration under the
direct supervision of a Teaching status PADI Instructor:
• Determining air supply and penetration limits.
• Swimming without causing excessive silt disturbance.
• Maintaining contact with the line.
• Using a dive light while following a penetration line.

 

[tursiops]

Dive Four A
• Plan and perform an actual wreck penetration under the
direct supervision of a Teaching status PADI Instructor:
• Determining air supply and penetration limits.
• Swimming without causing excessive silt disturbance.
• Maintaining contact with the line.
• Using a dive light while following a penetration line.

Dive 4A is optional, at instructor discretion depending on the wreck and the student and the conditions. Dive 4B is the alternative, and has no penetration allowed. The PADI Wreck course is purely recreational, it is not a technical course nor is it a penetration course.

 

[NauticalNick]

Sorry to ask an off-topic question; when, on the PADI Wreck course, are you required to lay a line into a wreck?

Am curious as most wrecks have swim-throughs or dead ends that are barely longer than a few feet. It’s pretty uncommon to come across a large overhead corridor with multi-deck navigation, certainly in vintage shipwrecks. For those wrecks that do require navigation, a simple “Wreck” course is clearly inadequate; you need full cave skills and techniques. These are very much rigorous technical diving courses with a lot of skills practice which you wouldn’t get on a recreational taster “course”.

The recreational wreck course is similar to cavern (I think?) in that it's a 40m linear path from surface (ie. 30m depth and 10m penetration) and within the light zone.

 

[tursiops]

The recreational wreck course is similar to cavern (I think?) in that it's a 40m linear path from surface (ie. 30m depth and 10m penetration) and within the light zone.

Exactly, although 18m/60 ft is the recommended max depth for Wreck, whereas 21m/70 ft is the recommended max depth for Cavern.

 

[Wibble]

To clarify my question; when, or why, is it recommended to lay line into a wreck?

Laying line in an overhead environment is non trivial and something that could cause more problems and encourage dangerous situations. Should a diver with “recreational” standard skills really be doing this?

A line is required for navigating where or when there is no clear exit. It is easy enough to do this where the visibility is poor and you need, for example, to return to the shot line. It is a substantially more difficult task when doing a wreck penetration—an overhead environment—where superior skills are required to not degrade conditions.

Following a line is easy. Following a line in silt-out conditions is fairly straightforward provided you have the core skills (finning techniques, excellent buoyancy and trim) to not pull on the line. Following a line in a three dimensional overhead environment with zero visibility is something cave divers train hard to perfect including touch signalling and they also have redundant gas and equipment, something well beyond “recreational” standards.

Is laying line penetrating into an overhead wreck environment pushing people’s expectations beyond their skills and a dangerous activity to encourage?

 

[tursiops]

Is laying line penetrating into an overhead wreck environment pushing people’s expectations beyond their skills and a dangerous activity to encourage?

I've taught the full PADI Wreck course a number of times. Only once have I exercised the option for the Dive 4A penetration, and that was a mistake; the student got task loaded and hyperfocussed and I had to grab his shoulder and shake it to get his attention and tell him to turn around and exit.

 

[lermontov]

Following a line is easy. Following a line in silt-out conditions is fairly straightforward

following a well laid line is easy- a bad one not so much, personally I thing line laying is a crucial and underrated skill. First class line laying -considering all aspects related to entry and exit is an art bordering on the occult. One of the skills i constantly try to to improve on

ive seen more problems relating to poorly laid line than I care to recount. Id encourage all instructors to spend more time on line work, it's a skill that will give a solid return on investment for when (not if) it all turns to custard.

The last thing you need when your strung out is a crappy line that creates confusion and stress when your trying to exit never mind trying to share gas at the same time. Getting tangled up when your low on gas can be the proverbial straw.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

To clarify my question; when, or why, is it recommended to lay line into a wreck?

You know the drill:

1. Just a peak inside, no need to run a line...
2. Maybe I should run a line? But I would need to return, it takes time, and it's still OK...
3. Oh what is this big open silty space inside the wreck? I can no longer see the walls...
4. Oh sh*t I should've been running a line.

Alternative take on the PADI recreational wreck diver course: I think it's incredibly useful and it changed my diving.

I did a wreck diver course with two instructor candidates who needed the "speciality" to be able to teach it, I was just tagging along. All of us were on twinsets diving a bus in a quarry at 25? 30? meters. It was ran by someone who participates on expeditions to "real" wrecks. That someone also tends to follow the rules so we were not allowed to get into deco (diving air) and the course was in January, so there was a thermal limit too.

Potentially an absolutely useless course, swim around, get a card. I was initially disappointed that we will not be focusing on penetration or running a line.

What I learned: time flies when you have 20 - 25 minutes on the bottom and "work" to accomplish and you absolutely need to prepare. Memorise the dive site, draw diagrams, split roles in the team. Rehearse on the surface who does what. Changed my diving. It's also real life task loading, as opposed to trying to recover a reel in a total silt out...

 

[lizardland]

To clarify my question; when, or why, is it recommended to lay line into a wreck?

It's been a long time since I've been within the PADI environment but if I remember right the cavern diving cert (which obviously relies on line work) was very limited in its application. Within the visible light zone and 40m to a clear surface (i.e. allowed penetration was 40m - depth) as I recall. I would imagine wreck penetration would be within those same limits.

Is laying line penetrating into an overhead wreck environment pushing people’s expectations beyond their skills and a dangerous activity to encourage?

You only have to look at experienced wreck divers using guidelines and half of them just drag it behind them and let it go where it goes, regardless of line traps, obstacles or anyone else. More than a few occasions I've had people swim past me and then just sweep their line right across me. My first love is cave diving and wreck diver line handling, at least in the UK, is pretty poor generally. If experienced wreck divers struggle with it then inexperienced wreck divers will even more. I suspect a lot of these courses are run just to give the customer the feeling that they've done something productive. And that's applicable across the board, half the stuff I've done on technical courses is just utter shite that's there as a filler to make you feel like you've done something hard.