Bali diveprices

[DownUnderwater Dan]

I went back diving NP last Xmas after 3 years, I was horrified how Toyapakeh was busy at surface level with all kinds of snorkelers, banana boaters, etc. and that is before the chinese invasion to come!

Can you remember how Wally or Kal Muller described Toyapakeh looking through the cristal clear waters up to the surface skylined with the small cliffs and tree foliage. One of the best dives around Bali.
In a month time, all you might see looking up are those chinese bums in the middle of a yellow donut buoy.

Yes, I read their experience at Toyapakeh, even they're highly experienced, they still got caught with the current and ended up just making shore at the pier and completely entangled in fishing lines/nets without a knife, and using their teeth to bite their way out

Yes, I sense Toyapakeh & NP in general is getting more developed. And just a short distance across the channel, is an impressive newly built harbour in Ceningan, bound to increase tourist numbers. Although I believe the Indonesian people & authorities have great & superior knowledge in sustaining the pristine marine environment in the area.

 

[noserider]

dived in Komodo with the Dive center whose intructor had been lost a year before with 4 or 5 divers who had managed to reach a beach struggling to steer away the dragons .
I'm glad I didn't dive with her because I found she wasn't very receptive on any kind of requests or observations, one of the best quote she told me "Don't you think I have more important things to do than dive with the customers" while she didn't have any guides and her main instructor was on strike (Imagine that was coming from an instructor, managing her own shop).
This anecdote might not have any relationship with the incident, though with the hindsight... one diver who happened to be a mechanics engineer told her by ear the engine of the diveboat was about to break, she laughed at him, eventually the engine broke while we were underwater Batu Bolong, the exact place were she had been lost. Karma or cause? Humility should be a mandatory PADI specialty.

Was she one half of a british couple that founded the first dive centre on Gilli Air and the turtle sanctuary in the mid 90's and set up one of the first dive centres in Komodo?

If so, it is completely out of character from what she was like back then and from the stories I heard at the time (2008) it was apparent that her actions saved all of the divers, so your comments are very surprising to read, but perhaps 3 decades in Indo has changed her.

 

[Luko]

Was she one half of a british couple that founded the first dive centre on Gilli Air and the turtle sanctuary in the mid 90's and set up one of the first dive centres in Komodo?

I'm talking about the same person, I don't know what happened probably she dived the wrong side of the site on the wrong tide. You might have "heard" stories, on my side what I heard is that Ernest the hubby did a lot to shake the Indonesian authorities and continue the searching.

Now from things I experienced first hand when I met her in 2010 : I went diving with her dive center (she wasn't working with Ernest anymore), it was an unorgarnized mess, clearly staffing people wasn't her forte neither dealing with customers, she didn't listen to anyone (her staff was not at ease with the way she dealt)... maybe she should have stayed with turtles.

 

[noserider]

I'm talking about the same person, I don't know what happened probably she dived the wrong side of the site on the wrong tide. You might have "heard" stories, on my side what I heard is that Ernest the hubby did a lot to shake to Indonesian authorities and continue the searching.

Now from things I experienced first hand when I met her in 2010 : I went diving with her dive center (she wasn't working with Ernest anymore), it was an unorgarnized mess, clearly staffing people wasn't her forte neither dealing with customers, she didn't listen to anyone (her staff was not at ease with the way she dealt)... maybe she should have stayed with turtles.

Ernest and her were very good friends of a close friend of mine and she certainly wasn't like that back in the 90's. It does seem a bit strange that you are still complaining about a poor dive experience 13 years ago, maybe its time for you to move on and only tell stories that you know are fully correct.

However, I also heard that Ernest was the driving force for getting them rescued and garnered a huge amount of international press coverage which pressurised the authorities to continue searching. The stories I heard at the time (albeit second hand from my friend) was that she kept the group together, got them to tie off together and got the whole group to the island and kept them alive. Stories I have no reason to doubt.

She was still with Ernest until he unfortunately died in 2019.

 

[Luko]

Ernest and her were very good friends of a close friend of mine and she certainly wasn't like that back in the 90's. It does seem a bit strange that you are still complaining about a poor dive experience 13 years ago, maybe its time for you to move on and only tell stories that you know are fully correct.

Were you with me when we were left at surface with an engine broken down and the boat drifting half a mile away in 2010? I don't think so as there were only 2 french guys (me and the mechanics engineer), 3 dutch people and 2 british instructors who didn't stay there for long btw. Fortunately the site were we were was sheltered there was very little current and it was still noon with boat traffic around, after less than one hour we were rescued by another boat that fetched our boat later on (a boat from a dive center that was established way longer btw, I don't think her dive center was "one of the first" as you claim, get your infos right too), towed it back to harbor.
It's not a "poor" dive experience as you state : having a defective engine with no 2nd engine solution while diving Komodo is a major safety issue. Be it coming from your friend or not. I am relating an exemple not to follow ( a faulty boat was also one of the cause of the incident that happened around Lembongan, in addition to a stupid dive plan.), and lessons to be learnt. For the 3 times I suspected a faulty boat engine, 3 times a real problem happened, now I won't go anymore on a shabby boat and carefuly avoid dive centers where the manager doesn't listen.

One thing for sure is that Ernest didn't do any work for the dive center that was located on Bidadari/Angel isle Ernest was working in the dive center located mainland Flores, none of the brit instructor couple working there had seen him on the island (hence why I said she wasn't working with Ernest. I don't care about private relationships.).

What is REALLY strange is that you are very selective on stories you like to hear, you prefer second hand "you are pretty sure of" dating 10 years from what I am relating but you don't believe facts coming from first hand, which side are you deaf so I can tell you what happened to ME on your good hearing side?
I think it's rather time for you to move on for you that earth is not flat, Santa doesn't exist and Mrs KM might not be such the superhero you thought and would rather have listened to her customers at some times.

 

[noserider]

Were you with me when we were left at surface with an engine broken down and the boat drifting half a mile away in 2010? I don't think so as there were only 2 french guys (me and the mechanics engineer), 3 dutch people and 2 british instructors who didn't stay there for long btw. Fortunately the site were we were was sheltered there was very little current and it was still noon with boat traffic around, after less than one hour we were rescued by another boat that fetched our boat later on (a boat from a dive center that was established way longer btw, I don't think her dive center was "one of the first" as you claim, get your infos right too), towed it back to harbor.
It's not a "poor" dive experience as you state : having a defective engine with no 2nd engine solution while diving Komodo is a major safety issue. Be it coming from your friend or not. I am relating an exemple not to follow ( a faulty boat was also one of the cause of the incident that happened around Lembongan, in addition to a stupid dive plan.), and lessons to be learnt. For the 3 times I suspected a faulty boat engine, 3 times a real problem happened, now I won't go anymore on a shabby boat and carefuly avoid dive centers where the manager doesn't listen.

One thing for sure is that Ernest didn't do any work for the dive center that was located on Bidadari/Angel isle Ernest was working in the dive center located mainland Flores, none of the brit instructor couple working there had seen him on the island (hence why I said she wasn't working with Ernest. I don't care about private relationships.).

What is REALLY strange is that you are very selective on stories you like to hear, you prefer second hand "you are pretty sure of" dating 10 years from what I am relating but you don't believe facts coming from first hand, which side are you deaf so I can tell you what happened to ME on your good hearing side?
I think it's rather time for you to move on for you that earth is not flat, Santa doesn't exist and Mrs KM might not be such the superhero you thought and would rather have listened to her customers at some times.

You do seem to have some anger issues. Breath deeply and relax.

If you want facts, they had the first dive centre on Gili Air and moved to Flores as the Gili's were getting too busy and they wanted to start up something new in a less popular area

How many dive boats have you been on that have 2 engines? It does sound like you had an unfortunate experience and its sounds like the boat should have turned back.

Ask yourself how many times have you been on boats in SE Asia that wouldn't pass EU or US safety standards, I suspect it is the majority. I know I have been on a few in my time.

There were probably a whole host of issues happening at the time that you were not aware of but I still feel it is bad form to continually criticise someone where they have no form of recourse particularly as many thousands have had positive experiences with both reef seekers and at Bidari / Angel resort

 

[Luko]

You do seem to have some anger issues. Breath deeply and relax.

You do seem to have some judgement bias and negate reality. Meditate a bit about balance, open your eyes and ask yourself whether you're not slightly brainwashed.
Then next try not to come out and call someone a liar when he relates his own experience. Thanks.

If you want facts, they had the first dive centre on Gili Air and moved to Flores as the Gili's were getting too busy and they wanted to start up something new in a less popular area

What has it got to do : aren't we speaking about Komodo? This is a completely useless remark on Gilis except that you were wrong first saying it was "one of the first dive centers in Komodo".
Who needs fact checking : you're the pot calling a kettle black.

How many dive boats have you been on that have 2 engines? It does sound like you had an unfortunate experience and its sounds like the boat should have turned back.

Not even : the boat shouldn't have been used this day. An "unfortunate experience" you say : you like understatement especially when your friends seem not up to the situation.
You read I wrote the mechanics engineer warned the managers about that. Guess what : he warned them the day before that happened, but no... No need to listen to customers, customers are so stupid, they don't know, better use the same boat for the next day.
I cannot excuse this attitude because the day after "the unfortunate experience" happened, another boat was used, so there was an alternative but the management prefered to roll the dices with our safety.

Bigger boats often have a small spare engine at least that's what we saw on the boat that rescued us... as well as on all the speed boats I used when diving Komodo with other ops. Her dive centre was not my only experience in Komodo but it was far the worst for both the organization and the arrogant attitude.

I still feel it is bad form to continually criticise someone where they have no form of recourse particularly as many thousands have had positive experiences with both reef seekers and at Bidari / Angel resort

Weird way of evaluating things, your assessment is yours, you must do a bit of work on yourself to figure out some people may not have the same feeling.
Everybody can sail a flat sea, fortunately it's the most widespread case, though I'm convinced that it's when trouble begins that you can see the value of an operation dealing with problems, otherwise everything is equal to everything.
Good for you you enjoyed your time, although it is not acceptable that you negate other people experience on the sole reason you know her. Personally I don't see any reason why I would try to hide the dark side of things when mistakes have been done.

 

[Indah]

Nobody prevents anybody to rent a tank and go diving solo or with a buddy (without checking your C Card).

... but...

Tulamben area is a very long stretch of reefs or black sand shores, except for the most reknown spots there isn’t any signpost saying this is Gerombong or this is Kuanji.
Nor would you know that on Batu Niti you should walk 150m on the right side before reaching the interesting part.

So how would you know where to dive? People reducing the dive guide to pointing a stick at the critters don’t have a single idea of what Tulamben sites are.

This ain’t the Caribbeans !!!

By Indonesian law it is strictly forbidden to dive solo. And an Indonesian dive guide have to supervise the dive.

 

[Indah]

Hi all, I’m going to Bali, researching diveshops and trying to get a feel for prices. Need some input as I’m finding quotes to be very expensive IMO. Getting averages of around $40 USD per dive on nitrox..and that’s when offering to buy a pack of 30+ dives which are all shoredives with no rental gear at all and no transport or park fees..as it’s housereef stuff...so basically $40 for a filled tank..and that’s it.

just seems a bit steep. If you are an experienced diver in Bali, could you chime in with what sort of ballpark I can/should expect?

this is all north shore stuff as well, no ‘soma bay tourist trap’ stuff...

tnx.

As mentioned by me and others. Dives should be guided, or at least supervised. So, what would you think is a fair salary for the guide and the costs of his dive gear? And the person filling the Nitrox? We can agree they are two professionals doing a skilled job? What about the compressor costs such as energy, the place to run it, filters, oil, maintenance and overhauls. The transport of the tanks? Maintenance of the tanks? What about taxes and permit costs for the operation?
Yes, many people are willing to work for much less than what would be fair. Because they are over their heads in debts after more than years without any income from their dive operations. Please do your own math. And calculate what would be a fair price to pay. 30 USD per dive is not covering the costs for small scale operators where it can happen that the guide have to take only one or two guests diving at the same time.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

By Indonesian law it is strictly forbidden to dive solo. And an Indonesian dive guide have to supervise the dive.

Could you be more specific. Are you referring to solo diving through a dive centre? And are you talking about a dive business in Indonesia for recreational, watersports or tourism purposes?


I'm guessing that snorkeling and freediving are either part of that same law that you're referring to, or same type of restrictions but in different categories. ie. a boat from a recreational watersports business is prohibited from taking a large group of snorklers & divers and letting them all jump into the ocean without a guide or supervision?


If what you're referring to is that, does that mean every tourist that decides to snorkel alone, or does some morning yoga then goes solo freediving is engaging in "forbidden" behaviour and breaking Indonesian law?


Another example would be, if I flew into Indonesia to meet up with a friend or dive buddy, and we go diving without using a dive centre or any other associated business, would we be breaking this Indonesian law that you're referring to?


I genuinely want some concrete clarification.