Bali diveprices

[noserider]

Such a lame argumentation ! Ad hominem. (Schopenhauer - strategy 16).

Did you care reading what I wrote : the mechanics engineer warned them a couple of time.
Your opinion is debunked, you're so biased and onesided that your opinion is worth the best hours of staline's political trials.

Your esteemed engineer was still happy to get on the boat and put himself at risk despite knowing the risk, therefore weakening your argument massively.

Anyway I am sure you will come back with a further retort and continue to highlight the bad experience you had with one of the early pioneers setting up dive centres in Indo 13 years ago.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

My question was on scuba diving not snorkelling. So I assumed it is illegal to dive unguided in the country even on a house reef.

They both come under the same regulation's subsections. And the regulations only apply to recreational diving tourism business & services.

So, another example to make it perfectly clear, if an Indonesian man living on some island takes his own boat by himself and goes diving to collect lobster and molluscs or spearfishing in order to provide food for his family,...he is indeed not a criminal as he isn't using a recreational diving business

 

[Searcaigh]

When I first started diving Lembeh more that 10 years ago, it was fine to pick up an air tank and solo dive the house reef provided you filled in the white board of time in/out. The resident camera pro was frequently solo diving and was an ex-pat working there, not an Indonesian national.

My first dives in Bali in 1999 I solo dived the house reef off Tulamben, and later the house reefs of other places I stayed also at night as well as day. Nobody mentioned anything about needing a guide. During my last trip (Oct 2022) I used a guide on all my night dives.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

@ScubaWithTurk , I'm not trying to be condescending nor looking for an argument, I just want to clear this misunderstanding up.

I believe this is the Indonesian law/regulation that you are referring to, which only relates to recreational diving TOURISM & SERVICES:

View attachment 769687View attachment 769687

Translated in English: RECREATIONAL DIVING TOURISM GUIDELINES BY THE GRACE OF GOD ALMIGHTY THE MINISTER OF TOURISM OF THE REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA,

The references to solo diving being prohibited are:

(IND) STANDAR OPERASIONAL PROSEDUR PENYELENGGARAAN WISATA SELAM REKREASI

(ENG) STANDARD OPERATIONAL PROCEDURES FOR RECREATIONAL DIVING TOURISM

(IND) B. Pengawasan Kegiatan Selam Rekreasi 1. Kegiatan Wisata selam rekreasi

(ENG) B. Supervision of recreational diving activities 1. Recreational diving tourism activities

(IND) b) Seluruh kegiatan wisata selam rekreasi pada perairan terbuka wajib dilakukan pendampingan atau pengawasan oleh pemandu selam (dive guide) atau Instruktur dari pengusaha wisata selam baik langsung maupun tidak langsung.

(ENG) b) All recreational dive tourism activities in open water must be assisted or supervised by dive guides or instructors from dive tourism entrepreneurs, either directly or indirectly.

(IND) 3. Wisatawan Selam
a) Wisatawan selam dilarang melakukan penyelaman sendiri.

(ENG) 3. Diving Tourists
a) Diving tourists are prohibited from diving alone.

(IND) e) Wisatawan selam yang akan melakukan kegiatan penyelaman free/skin diving atau snorkeling wajib didampingi minimum oleh seorang pemandu penyelaman bebas (free/skin diving) atau snorkeling dan dilakukan pada perairan terbuka yang relatif aman atau perairan tertutup.

(ENG) e) Diving tourists who will carry out free/skin diving or snorkeling activities must be accompanied by a minimum of a free/skin diving or snorkeling guide and carried out in relatively safe open waters or closed waters.



@ScubaWithTurk do you see that by that very same section in those regulations for Diving Tourists including scuba, snorkeling and freediving are all bound by those same laws. Which would literally mean according to your interpretation of those Indonesian laws, that a couple on their honeymoon or solo traveller wouldn't be allowed to snorkel alone or without a guide at the beach.


I'm pointing this out, as all these regulations from the Indonesian government only apply to diving tourism and services. There's a big distinction from conducting one's own activities legally, like hiring mask, snorkel and fins and looking for turtles in Gili Islands from shore, as it's not an actual dive tourism service/business like a snorkeling tour, it's just hiring gear only.

First of all, you do seem to be looking for an argument or at least are being condescending because you ask a question, one I answered and then you basically tell me I am wrong.

Now onto the actual law, you are being quite liberal with your interpretation of the law. You are reading "dive tourism" and thinking it refers to a business. Any diving in Bali by someone who is just visiting, is considered dive tourism. Also, you keep mentioning snorkeling and no one here as mentioned that. This a post about diving on a message board with SCUBA in the name.

If you rent a cylinder and weights from a dive op, you are now partaking in diving tourism and as such, would need a guide. Every dive center here knows that the law exists. Do they all follow it? No they do not. Some places will let you rent cylinders and weights and go for a dive with a buddy. Many won't allow it. I prefer to stay on the right side of the law these days, not so much when I was younger, therefore our dive center will not let you go out without a DM or myself accompanying you.

Yes, it only applies to diving tourism. Any diving a non-citizen or a person without a valid work permit or retirement visa does falls under that stature. You are a tourist engaged in diving activities, hence dive tourism.

All recreational dive tourism activities in open water must be assisted or supervised by dive guides or instructors from dive tourism entrepreneurs (If you dive in Indonesia as a tourist, you must be assisted or supervised by a guide or instructor from a dive center or dive tourism business)

I hope that helps.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

They both come under the same regulation's subsections. And the regulations only apply to recreational diving tourism business & services.

So, another example to make it perfectly clear, if an Indonesian man living on some island takes his own boat by himself and goes diving to collect lobster and molluscs or spearfishing in order to provide food for his family,...he is indeed not a criminal as he isn't using a recreational diving business

If he is Indonesian, he is not taking part in dive tourism as he is a citizen of Indonesia. Therefore he is not breaking any law.

 

[Centrals]

All recreational dive tourism activities in open water must be assisted or supervised by dive guides or instructors from dive tourism entrepreneurs (If you dive in Indonesia as a tourist, you must be assisted or supervised by a guide or instructor from a dive center or dive tourism business)

This message should be permanently displayed on the heading of Indonesian sub forum together with that Law 7 in 2016(Minister of Tourism).
Moderator should remove any post from anyone mentioning diving solo in the country unless that person is a local.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

First of all, you do seem to be looking for an argument or at least are being condescending because you ask a question, one I answered and then you basically tell me I am wrong.

Now onto the actual law, you are being quite liberal with your interpretation of the law. You are reading "dive tourism" and thinking it refers to a business. Any diving in Bali by someone who is just visiting, is considered dive tourism. Also, you keep mentioning snorkeling and no one here as mentioned that. This a post about diving on a message board with SCUBA in the name.

If you rent a cylinder and weights from a dive op, you are now partaking in diving tourism and as such, would need a guide. Every dive center here knows that the law exists. Do they all follow it? No they do not. Some places will let you rent cylinders and weights and go for a dive with a buddy. Many won't allow it. I prefer to stay on the right side of the law these days, not so much when I was younger, therefore our dive center will not let you go out without a DM or myself accompanying you.

Yes, it only applies to diving tourism. Any diving a non-citizen or a person without a valid work permit or retirement visa does falls under that stature. You are a tourist engaged in diving activities, hence dive tourism.

All recreational dive tourism activities in open water must be assisted or supervised by dive guides or instructors from dive tourism entrepreneurs (If you dive in Indonesia as a tourist, you must be assisted or supervised by a guide or instructor from a dive center or dive tourism business)

I hope that helps.

Sorry mate you are wrong, I'm not looking for an argument.

I actually put in a bit of time and searched and found the actual regulations. And it's very obvious that those regulations are directed towards recreational diving tourism businesses. There isn't even an official translated version of it, so how would any of the probably 100's of thousands of recreational dive customers ever read laws like that?

And don't try to distance snorkeling from scuba, as they are very well included in the same regulation's subsection, and are both classed as "Wisatawan Selam".

Like I pointed out, but you're doubling down that anyone coming to Indonesia to recreational diving activities is a recreational diving tourist, would literally mean that anyone snorkeling without a guide in Indonesia is breaking the law.

And I bet you didn't even look up the official regulations until I posted it.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

This message should be permanently displayed on the heading of Indonesian sub forum together with that Law 7 in 2016(Minister of Tourism).
Moderator should remove any post from anyone mentioning diving solo in the country unless that person is a local.

That law applies to Indonesian citizens also, if you actually download and read it. Example, a family from Jawa holiday in Bali for recreational diving tourism are partaking in recreational diving tourism activities.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

If he is Indonesian, he is not taking part in dive tourism as he is a citizen of Indonesia. Therefore he is not breaking any law.

The law also applies to Indonesian citizens.

And if he was my mate, and he invited me on his boat to freedive/spearfish and dive for lobsters so we could have a feast in his village, I wouldn't be breaking the law in joining him.

 

[Luko]

Your esteemed engineer was still happy to get on the boat and put himself at risk despite knowing the risk, therefore weakening your argument massively.

I simply see it is not worth and a waste of time explaining anything to you since you're convinced out of thin air that your friends are the most supercalifragilidecious dive operators in the world. (How much are they paying you? Are you under any threat -if yes just use the clown icon twice- ? Did they promise you Stalin's medal?)
At least you know how to use Petitio principii out of nothing real - Schopenhauer strategy #6

one of the early pioneers setting up dive centres in Indo 13 years ago.

Pioneers 13 years ago...? Ho humm this is getting embarassing.
For your own culture, you should check out info about these guys Hani Batuna, Wally Siagian, Max Ammer, Edy Fromenwiler, Larry Smith or Donovan Whitford.
FYI to give you some time perspective when I first dived the Gilis in 1999 there were already lots of dive centres, local, german or english owned, in 2010 Labuan Bajo was on the backpacker trail with a large selection of dive centers.