Bailout Gas Plan on DiveProMe

[GF99/99]

I recently completed my Mod1 on a Fathom Gemini and have been trying to do a bailout gas plan using the DiveProMe app. For some reason, when I press 'bailout', it isn't calculating open circuit gas consumption from the bottom depth, rather it is calculating it from the 1st stop on the ascent. I've tried inputting multiple deco gases, changing PPO2 settings, changing the runtime/depth but it makes no difference. On a 40m dive it is actually rather trivial as the ascent from the bottom to the first stop isn't that deep and doesn't take long but if you were at significant depth, it would become material. I've shared the link to my attempt

To get back on track to your original question can you share some screen shots or more info on the App. Or a link where where it can be downloaded. I have checked the link you posted and this is what comes up for me. Looks like a 50m dive on a 20/32 then at 24m you switch to a 28% and finish the dive on a 28%. Kind of a strange deco gas but im not here to judge on debate deco gas choices. I think the main question you are asking is how to set the software to plan you B/O gas based on leaving the bottom phase. And you are correct from what I can see the software is only calculating it from 24m, looks like it is showing you need 1282l of O/C gas and is not shoing anything for the 20/32 so good catch on your part especially for a new CCR diver. I clicked around quite a bit on the all the buttons and do not see anywhere how you set your B/O plan. I am guessing the software is not that advanced to set your B/O gas to be calculated from the bottom phase. Also you are very correct in the fact that for deeper dives you will need alot of gas to get to your gas switches so this software is defiantly not good for CCR b/o planning.

Not to bash on the app but based on the link you posted it is a very very basic planning program and not something that I personally would use to plan decompression dives. Also I have never heard of this software or know anyone that has used it. For something as serious as technical decompression CCR diving you might want to consider starting off with a known app that is widely used in the diving community and once you get super comfortable with planning dives and understanding all the variables then try a newer non mainstream software of beta versions.

Personally I really like Multideco MultiDeco ZHL-GF & VPM & VPM-B & VPM-B/E dive decompression software for technical divers subsurface is another good one as well.

 

[Wibble]

28% at 50m is 6ATA x 0.28 = 1.68 PPO2

That is not a good bailout mix as the PPO2 is too high and way too high if you need to use it as a diluent.

Shoving those numbers into MultiDeco needs the OC 'hack' to force use of the 28% deep (you set that gas at 1m above the bottom which uses that gas and calculates the gas volumes)

Decompression model: ZHL16-B + GF

DIVE PLAN - BailOut
Surface interval = 5 day 0 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0m
Conservatism = GF 50/80

Dec to 50m (2) Diluent 20/32 0.70 SetPoint, 18m/min descent.
Level 50m 32:13 (35) Diluent 20/32 1.30 SetPoint, 26m ead, 31m end
Asc to 49m (35) Diluent 20/32 1.30 SetPoint, -9m/min ascent.
Asc to 24m (37) Nitrox 28 -9m/min ascent.
Stop at 24m 0:07 (38) Nitrox 28 0.95 ppO2, 21m ead
Stop at 21m 1:00 (39) Nitrox 28 0.86 ppO2, 18m ead
Stop at 18m 1:00 (40) Nitrox 28 0.78 ppO2, 16m ead
Stop at 15m 3:00 (43) Nitrox 28 0.70 ppO2, 13m ead
Stop at 12m 4:00 (47) Nitrox 28 0.61 ppO2, 10m ead
Stop at 9m 8:00 (55) Nitrox 28 0.53 ppO2, 7m ead
Stop at 6m 48:00 (103) Nitrox 28 0.45 ppO2, 5m ead
Surface (105) Nitrox 28 -3m/min ascent.

OTU's this dive: 58
CNS Total: 23.5%
Gas density: 5.3g/l

1732.7 ltr Nitrox 28
1732.7 ltr OC TOTAL


For that dive a sensible diver would be using two bailouts and a decent bottom gas with a lower PPO2.

Showing the MultiDeco plan for using 18/36 diluent and 18/35 bailout with 50% as deco gas... (the 1% difference is only to highlight which gas is being used in the calculation)

DIVE PLAN - BailOut
Surface interval = 5 day 0 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0m
Conservatism = GF 50/80

Dec to 50m (2) Diluent 18/36 0.70 SetPoint, 18m/min descent.
Level 50m 32:13 (35) Diluent 18/36 1.30 SetPoint, 23m ead, 29m end
Asc to 24m (37) Trimix 18/35 -9m/min ascent.
Stop at 24m 0:07 (38) Trimix 18/35 0.61 ppO2, 10m ead, 12m end
Stop at 21m 2:00 (40) Trimix 18/35 0.56 ppO2, 8m ead, 10m end
Stop at 18m 3:00 (43) Trimix 18/35 0.50 ppO2, 7m ead, 8m end
Stop at 15m 3:00 (46) Nitrox 50 1.24 ppO2, 6m ead
Stop at 12m 4:00 (50) Nitrox 50 1.10 ppO2, 4m ead
Stop at 9m 7:00 (57) Nitrox 50 0.95 ppO2, 2m ead
Stop at 6m 35:00 (92) Nitrox 50 0.80 ppO2, 0m ead
Surface (94) Nitrox 50 -3m/min ascent.

OTU's this dive: 90
CNS Total: 32.7%
Gas density: 5.1g/l

538.7 ltr Trimix 18/35
1042.7 ltr Nitrox 50
1581.4 ltr OC TOTAL

Personally, I'd use a higher percentage deco gas to get me out earlier such as 60% -- if I'm in the incident pit requiring bailout, I don't need more time underwater. Running the above with 60% reduces the dive to 89 mins, 5 mins earlier than 50% and 16 mins earlier than the (awful) 28%.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

BalticDeco is pretty sweet too if you need to calculate bailouts or lost gases. You want to use an app that works with no internet connection.

 

[JCM@Atlam]

To get back on track to your original question can you share some screen shots or more info on the App. Or a link where where it can be downloaded. I have checked the link you posted and this is what comes up for me. Looks like a 50m dive on a 20/32 then at 24m you switch to a 28% and finish the dive on a 28%. Kind of a strange deco gas but im not here to judge on debate deco gas choices. I think the main question you are asking is how to set the software to plan you B/O gas based on leaving the bottom phase. And you are correct from what I can see the software is only calculating it from 24m, looks like it is showing you need 1282l of O/C gas and is not shoing anything for the 20/32 so good catch on your part especially for a new CCR diver. I clicked around quite a bit on the all the buttons and do not see anywhere how you set your B/O plan. I am guessing the software is not that advanced to set your B/O gas to be calculated from the bottom phase. Also you are very correct in the fact that for deeper dives you will need alot of gas to get to your gas switches so this software is defiantly not good for CCR b/o planning.

View attachment 857429

Not to bash on the app but based on the link you posted it is a very very basic planning program and not something that I personally would use to plan decompression dives. Also I have never heard of this software or know anyone that has used it. For something as serious as technical decompression CCR diving you might want to consider starting off with a known app that is widely used in the diving community and once you get super comfortable with planning dives and understanding all the variables then try a newer non mainstream software of beta versions.

Personally I really like Multideco MultiDeco ZHL-GF & VPM & VPM-B & VPM-B/E dive decompression software for technical divers subsurface is another good one as well.

I found the bug in the app. The software doesn't like it when the diluent mix is identical to a bailout mix. When I change the helium content of one of them by 1%, it 'fixes' the bug and calculates the bailout gas consumption from the bottom. I've been in contact with the programmer, who is presumably going to fix it. The plan wasn't a real dive, rather I was playing with numbers to try an understand what was wrong.

 

[Wibble]

I found the bug in the app. The software doesn't like it when the diluent mix is identical to a bailout mix. When I change the helium content of one of them by 1%, it 'fixes' the bug and calculates the bailout gas consumption from the bottom. I've been in contact with the programmer, who is presumably going to fix it. The plan wasn't a real dive, rather I was playing with numbers to try an understand what was wrong.

Same as MultiDeco— it assumes you’re using the diluent

 

[JCM@Atlam]

Same as MultiDeco— it assumes you’re using the diluent

I am using the diluent as the dil and deep bailout are one and the same. The DiveProMe app is free and if MultiDeco has the same issue, I don't see the point in parting with cash

 

[Wibble]

How else would you calculate your bailout volumes? Bailout volumes need to be calculated from the point of bailing out, even more important if using dil-out.

Multideco has been around for many years and has built a reputation for being reliable. That makes it worth the licence fee IMHO.

 

[Alexey Vlasov]

First, thanks for using DiveProMe! Quick reply you got it right. It's a workaround to use a 1% offset.

The long answer is that different approaches to CCR training. In some insturctor training programs the bailout is included in the diluent. In others as discussed in this track the bailout and decompression gas are separate...
More than 20 instructors from different organizations and training techniques are involved in the development and adjustment of the DiveProMe development. The solution that now meets the needs of all. It will always be a vice versa solution for some and others...

Apologies, the original link didn't work correctly, it should link to my actual plan now. I have actually figured out that there is a bug. The app doesn't like it when you have one of your bailout blends identical to your diluent blend (which will always be the case on a Gemini plan). I bodged it by changing the helium content on the TMX bailout by 1%. Works fine now and provides an OC consumption figure from max depth

https://vlasovalexey.github.io/Dive...ek:pt_saul_percent_usr1=0.30:diveprome_end=1:

 

[Alexey Vlasov]

DiveProMe was originally developed for OC technical dive planning only. In this respect, DiveProMe is better than Multideco. CCR planning was added later and yes you are right it is extremely simple.
DiveProMe is quite a popular planner. It currently occupies about 40% of the Play Store market in this category and is one of the top three popular schedulers on Android. It is user-friendly, easy to understand, and has beautiful informative charts. It is accurate in calculations. Its OC plans are the same as Shearwater and Multideco(in simple bucket mode).
DiveProMe is available as an app for Android, Windows, MacOS or as a PWA app for IOS. Download the latest versions from here:

Release DiveProMe v14.4 · VlasovAlexey/DiveProMe

Added the ability to set different surfacing speed before the first decompression stop and surfacing speed at the decompression stop. Corrected the accuracy of dive planning with the last stop at 6...

github.com

Multideco has problems with the calculation of multilevel profiles using decompression mixtures in the middle of the dive and not only at the end of the dive. Actually one of the reasons for the development of DiveProMe is dissatisfaction with the accuracy of Multideco for complex cave profiles. The second reason is the desire to update the old uncomfortable GUI. To make an understandable modern planner.

To get back on track to your original question can you share some screen shots or more info on the App. Or a link where where it can be downloaded. I have checked the link you posted and this is what comes up for me. Looks like a 50m dive on a 20/32 then at 24m you switch to a 28% and finish the dive on a 28%. Kind of a strange deco gas but im not here to judge on debate deco gas choices. I think the main question you are asking is how to set the software to plan you B/O gas based on leaving the bottom phase. And you are correct from what I can see the software is only calculating it from 24m, looks like it is showing you need 1282l of O/C gas and is not shoing anything for the 20/32 so good catch on your part especially for a new CCR diver. I clicked around quite a bit on the all the buttons and do not see anywhere how you set your B/O plan. I am guessing the software is not that advanced to set your B/O gas to be calculated from the bottom phase. Also you are very correct in the fact that for deeper dives you will need alot of gas to get to your gas switches so this software is defiantly not good for CCR b/o planning.

View attachment 857429

Not to bash on the app but based on the link you posted it is a very very basic planning program and not something that I personally would use to plan decompression dives. Also I have never heard of this software or know anyone that has used it. For something as serious as technical decompression CCR diving you might want to consider starting off with a known app that is widely used in the diving community and once you get super comfortable with planning dives and understanding all the variables then try a newer non mainstream software of beta versions.

Personally I really like Multideco MultiDeco ZHL-GF & VPM & VPM-B & VPM-B/E dive decompression software for technical divers subsurface is another good one as well.

 

[Alexey Vlasov]

DiveProMe is open source software. Everyone can see how it works. The point is not that it is not worth the money, but that if there is a bug it can be fixed by anyone. Everyone can look at it and improve it. Take it as a basis. Or point out to the authors of the program that there is a mistake. For this reason it is primarily a web application. It is convenient to share plans, work in a team, teach students. Send plans as links. Synchronize settings in one click....
Some features are missing in DiveProMe. For example, a decompression step other than 3m\10ft. Because instructors are involved in development and in training and in 99% of real dives we use these values...
DiveProMe is just a logical development of existing planners.