An objective way to eyeball someone's skill level

[=C=]

N

thats one Hellofa mask my friend...

 

[Nemrod]

USD/AL Atlantis, favorite of many divers for decades. Works good, lasts a long time. It has bifocals installed.

N

 

[scubadiver888]

I find this discussion informative. I must say, I agree with everyone here that the real way to judge someone's diving abilities is to dive with them and see. What I'm after is not really something that would replace that, but something that could sort of complement it. I'm particularly interested because every time I travel somewhere close to water (I'm stuck in New Mexico right now, so really anywhere is closer to water than home), I'm tempted to put a message on this board saying "I'll be in the area and I'm looking for people to dive with." I always chicken out (with no good reason really) partly because I'm a bit too shy and also because I don't know how to effectively convey what my skill level is. I wouldn't want to plan a whole dive, get there, and realize that we have to cancel because the dive is beyond my level.

Now short of being able to dive with everyone on here (although that could be a new challenge), how do you quickly convey that information?

Without going through all the responses, this thread has reminded me of several important details. I think it's true that there's a connection between the attitude outside of the water and the performance below the water. I think diving requires, definitely, an attention to detail. You have to monitor at least three important thing (tank pressure, depth, time), remember how they've been evolving and if they differ from what you'd planned and how it's going to affect the rest of the dive. I'd say that requires a certain basic attitude. I'd definitely not feel comfortable with buddying with someone whose attitude is cavalier.

I particularly liked the comment by nannymouse (there's at least another one on that same subject, but I can't remember really, I'm sorry to all the ones I've forgotten) about how skills transfer from one sport to another. Definitely, having local experience helps you evaluate the conditions, realize when conditions are good/bad, when they could change, what currents are like, etc, etc. I wouldn't think that, say, surfing, would help with, say, flottability, (although I could be wrong) but definitely, it help with a whole lot of important things. So, if I were to devise an imaginary scale from 0-10, someone could be a 10 in Monterey and a 3 in the north of scotland. That makes perfect sense.

If I were to devise such a "skill level scale", maybe there should be two different scales. One is your "global skills" and the other one is your "local skills". So how good I can expect you to be as a diver and how good/useful I can expect you to be as a diver in a certain place.

so I guess what I'm saying is it seems to me like there's two variables. There's

-general scuba diving skills: how good yoru trim is, how familiar are you with certain techniques, someone may have more specialized skillset(s) (cavern, wreck, ...)

-preparedness for a particular dive at a particular location: have you ever been diving in the area, do you know the typical conditions of the area, do you know the topgraphy around the dive site, etc...

One would expect that general scuba diving skills would improve with the number of dives, although I agree, there are some who never seem to learn...

cold_water,

You've hinted on a number of things I think are important but you keep looking at what the other diver's capabilities are and not what I think is the real issue...

Do you trust the guy? I do Quality Assurance. I'm a fairly pessimistic guy. I'm always looking for what can go wrong and making sure I'm prepared for it. If I haven't been diving for a year I'll re-certify myself. I won't look for something that looks good on paper; I'll take the whole certification over again just to be sure nothing is skipped.

I know a guy who does sales for a living. He is good at his job because he can sell himself. He can sell you almost anything because he doesn't actually sell the product. He makes you trust him. I would never dive with him. He doesn't believe you really need to know anything about anything. He just needs to convince you he is a good scuba diver; he doesn't believe he has to be a good scuba diver.

The fact you are nervous about just buddying up with anyone indicates you need to learn how to evaluate dive buddies and build up your trust. Once way you can do it is go diving in a controlled environment. I go on small cattle runs. They keep the dives fairly shallow, there is usually one dive master and six divers. If something went seriously wrong I'm fairly confident recovering would be easy. Does my buddy check in every so often? Does it play with the wildlife? Does he attempt to enter a wreck (I'm not wreck certified)? Does it do cavern diving? That is, go under an opening in the reef rather than over it. Hopefully, I can spot someone foolish enough to do cave diving without certification. If he does attempt to enter a cave, that is the end of the dive right there.

I've been partnered with guys who seem sensible but take risks I would not. I just tell them after the dive, my risk tolerance is not as high as their tolerance so I'm going to find someone more like me.

If we are group of divers there is usually time before the briefing, while gathering gear/tanks/etc., on the boat ride, etc. when I can talk to some of the divers. Usually, someone reminds me a little of me. They have a story about the last guy they went diving with and how he did something they couldn't handle. Through the conversation I can usually get a good gut feeling as to who I want to give a try.

Bottom line, the cattle run dives are designed for the weakest diver in the group. In many cases the dive is simplier than ANY of the divers in the group can handle. In a good operation the dive master will chat up the divers and pick the location he is sure they can all handle. Also, the guys who take risk don't do cattle runs because they don't want the dive master limiting them.

 

[24940]

"good diver" is such a subjective term. Take an experienced wetsuit diver and drop them into a drysuit and you usually have a CF on your hands.

I have always used SB post count as the surest method of determining a divers skill.

 

[Firefyter]

"good diver" is such a subjective term. Take an experienced wetsuit diver and drop them into a drysuit and you usually have a CF on your hands.

Truer words were never spoken. I consider myself a fairly experienced wetsuit diver, but drysuits are a very humbling experience.

I have always used SB post count as the surest method of determining a divers skill.

 

[freediver]

N

Hey, won't that mask also work as a replacement windshield for a 1982 Buick LeSabre?

 

[Nemrod]

Hey, won't that mask also work as a replacement windshield for a 1982 Buick LeSabre?

Arrrgggghhhhh, you guys are so trend driven :mooner:.

Besides, it is the fisheye lens that is making it look so big, it could not cover a Buick, a VW maybe but not a Buick.

N

 

[Hank49]

".

I have always used SB post count as the surest method of determining a divers skill.

Yeah...guys like Walter, Mike Ferrera, NWGrateful diver....all those posts and those guys can't dive at all..... riiiiight.

 

[Rick Inman]

All the stereotypes are bogus.

Some divers who brag about how great they are, really are great divers. Some are not.

Some people with brand new shinny gear dive just fine. Some don't. Some with a bunch of dirty old stuff dive just fine as well. Some don't. Got a lot of dives? Or just a few? In many cases that has nothing to do with skill.

Even if a diver has great skills, it means nothing about how they'll respond when it hits the fan. I've seen an experienced, dialed in dive just look at me when I tried to signal something outside of their experience - absolutely zero help. I watched a guy with 5 lifetime dives and gear he'd never dived before rescue his far more experienced buddy who was in full panic and ran out of gas. Seems that this young man's experience getting shot at in Iraq proved to be more helpful in a crisis than all the dive training his buddy had. No poll, graph or list would have predicted that.

You really can't tell how a person will respond in a given situation until they are actually in that situation. You can't tell how a person will dive until they you dive with them.

With many dives over time with the same diver, you can get a real good feel for how they will dive and how they will respond to pressure. Otherwise, it's all just internet talk.

No matter what I say on the boat on the ride out when you first meet me, and no matter what my gear looks like to you, there are still only about 4 people who really know how I dive, because we've put in the time together.

When I get in a new group, like on a charter boat, I keep my eyes and ears open for something I can learn from. There's always someone who knows something I don't, and I just hope they are nice enough to share it with me. If you really are a navy seal who just dived the Doria, I'll be the guy asking you questions.

 

[wreckchick]

I get to see a lot of divers in the water and although my hit rate isn't 100% by any stretch, I can still usually figure out who's who and what's what.

Divers that get themselves geared up and want to be in the water first tend to want the extra few minutes of bottom time and are pretty much ok. Divers that fuss and pick and rearrange their weights on the belt for 10 minutes, can't figure out which side the inflator hose is on tend to be not so good. I like to watch them giant stride. For some reason this seems to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Real quotes from the boat:

"My instructor made me promise to never dive without a divemaster or instructor with me."
"I refuse to give up my horse collar, heck they had to talk me into this thing, I still don't like it."
"Is EAN32 good for a 100' dive?"

"Do you mind if we stay around the bottom of the boat for a few minutes after we get back so I can take a few extra pictures?"
"Can we meet you on the bottom?"
"We like to stay to the back but we won't let you out of our sight."
"Don't worry about my gear, I like setting it up myself."

Do you want to guess what I thought about each of those divers before we ever hit the water? It's not an exact science but there are certainly clues.

Rachel

P.S. If someone hands me a Dork Divers C-card, I develop ear problems and can't dive