Alec Pierce Scuba - Long Hose Good or Bad

[pauldw]

So we're probably all tired of arguing this, but I will observe that when I go through my PADI manuals I see a lot of yellow octopuses, and not a single long hose. Same with looking on the PADI main web pages. Are the cattle boats in Coz full of long hoses? I'm unconvinced it's the common thing. And I'm certain SB is completely unrepresentative of most people who have taken an OW course. SBers should feel free to use a long hose. It still think it would be good to be more circumspect about expecting the cattle boat folks to not look for an octopus. But I'm tired of arguing this.

Now, I am vexed by our question about my own configuration. My configuration is specifically built to cover my one preferred kind of diving: solo shore diving off the rocks of the southern Oregon coast. Unless I'm with my kids, there won't be anyone else there to worry about. I don't want to entangle in kelp, so there's no octopus at all. No console either. Atomic SS1. In an emergency that it doesn't help with, I'm heading for the surface.

 

[rhwestfall]

The problem with demonstrating only standing to teach, is that once in the water, students emulate their instructor and are often vertical in the water. Teaching skills to kneeling on the bottom reinforces the vertical orientation for performing all skills.

It’s a mind set. The student does what is shown. I sure did. Took a while to understand that kicking while vertical or on a 45 degree angle disturbed the silt when I was near the bottom.

I watched an entire week of this. They were an "experienced" diver...

 

[rhwestfall]

This, however was a brand new diver...

.... first dive after open water check-outs that were 4 months earlier...

 

[MaxBottomtime]

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Not just as an option, as as the primary way. I don't know if they still do it, but a local shop, Silent World, when it was an SSI shop, taught primary donate as students were equipped with Air2s. I have no idea if they still do this or not.

The point is, there are a significant number of divers each year trained to primary donate. Are they them majority? Probably not. Are they an insignificant minority? Minority yes, insignificant, probably not.

Now you are aware that swim throughs are a part of recreational diving. Maybe you read here on ScubaBoard the language that John Adsit penned for them on what is an acceptable swim through and isn't an overhead. Assuming we are not going to argue that swimthroughs are a generally accepted practice, if you had to return through a swim through to get back to shore, how would you share air while doing so? This isn't a made up scenario, as it has happened and the people had to climb over a reef to get back to shore.

So, in your standard configuration, how would you personally @pauldw, handle this situation?

so @pauldw how would you handle this situation?

 

[Diving Dubai]

So if you have to use your back up LH but RH reg, you bring it round the back of your neck?
Or you already have it bungied that way.
Just curious?

It sits under my neck on a rubber necklace so I can quickly remove it to donate. When I use is (I breath out of my Alt at the beginning of every dive) I just pop it in my mouth. The hose is on a 90 degree swivel, so while it sits in front of my neck I don't notice it. Because its 40" there's no drag. Get yourself a 90 swivel and try it.

 

[RainPilot]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Several posts have been removed for snark, ad-hominem attacks and responses to the above. Please folks, keep it nice.

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[admikar]

OW students are trained to put the regulator back in because it's important for a regulator to be in your mouth; it's training on dealing with an emergency situation, since a regulator removed from your mouth unexpectedly is a problem what with there being panic and gulping water with more panic and so forth. That training takes place in a controlled environment, with supervision, and with plenty of advance preparation, so there isn't the same level of risk as suddenly having to give up a regulator on an actual dive when you're in need of immediate air, making it a bit of apples and oranges.

Hear, hear......so, in your opinion, there is no chance of getting your regulator kicked out of your mouth (or, for that matter, taken by OOA diver) after OW training?
If I misunderstood you, and you never said that there is no chance to have your regulator kicked out of your mouth, then please do tell how there is more risk to diver donating his/hers primary than if it gets kicked/hijacked out of their mouth?
BTW, I really like Alec's video style, but that video is wrong, plain and simple. As @Diving Dubai said, LH might be liability in strong current, but so could be a dragging octo (unfortunately, we can see a lot of dangling octos and SPGs).

 

[pauldw]

Yeah, you misunderstood, and it should be apparent that you misunderstood if you go back and read your own first sentence. I did not, of course, say what you said I did, I said that there's more risk in taking a regulator out of your mouth than in leaving it in. Which neither you, nor anyone else on this thread, have found a way to dispute. Look at the picture right here:

It's logical to take out one of those regulators to help someone else. That would be the yellow one. That's the issue.

 

[RogueClimber]

I believe those holding themselves forward as experts owe a certain degree of understanding the different techniques available to a diver.

The expert may disagree with a technique, but he should still be fully informed on other techniques and should honestly describe them.

SSI (acting as an expert) does a good job of this in their 2019 Standards of Training

I. Teaching Air Sharing Skills

For entry-level SSI programs, SSI Professionals may teach either method of air sharing (passing the primary or passing the

alternate regulator).

a. Air Sharing Skills During Entry-Level Training

Due to the wide variety of equipment confgurations, SSI encourages SSI Professionals to teach both methods of air

sharing to entry-level divers.

As dive professionals, we have an obligation to provide students with the knowledge and training necessary to dive

autonomously with an equally- or more-qualifed buddy in environments consistent with their training. This includes

equipment configurations they may encounter in equipment they purchase, rent, or see on their buddy.

b. Rationale For Passing The Primary Air Source

There are four common Delivery System configurations in modern recreational scuba:

1. A first stage and primary second-stage with a traditional alternate air source (additional second-stage regulator)

2. A first stage and primary second-stage with an integrated alternate air source and BC inflator

3. A first stage and long hose primary second-stage with an alternate air source (additional second-stage regulator) on a

necklace

4. A first stage and primary second-stage, and an additional first stage with alternate air source (additional second-stage

regulator)

c. Air Sharing During Professional-Level Training

Since passing the primary works with most equipment configurations, it is SSI's preferred method, and is a required

and evaluated skill for all SSI Professional training programs.

(emphasis added)​