Alec Pierce Scuba - Long Hose Good or Bad

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If Alec was as bad a person as some of the people here have said, it seems like he'd have done something mean in response to the slander that some of the posters on SB have spewed against him personally (and then there are the SB people who have gone over to YouTube to pour it on). There are some folks here who are ripe for a slander suit. Here's hoping he really isn't a nice guy...

Please quote whomever, including myself if it applies on what you think is slander.

 

[pauldw]

And there you are over on his YouTube channel, cheering him on to teach something that is clearly not correct.

He's not teaching a class. He's saying that long hose is good for the situations in which it was designed and intended to be used. He's also saying that on your typical shallow reef dive it makes no sense for normal divers to take an increased risk rather than a lessened risk, by removing a regulator from their mouth when they don't have to. He did a poor job of explaining how long hoses work, but then you folks carping at him for that have done a poor job of actually explaining how his basic point is incorrect (you just say he doesn't understand tec diving, which still doesn't address why donating an octopus is evil). Shoredivr, how about you expand your criticisms and get after him for standing up vertically as he does a video on what happens to tanks when you drop them, or on different types of regulator assemblies, or on vintage SCUBA movie posters, or on dynamic versus static O rings, or on what happens if a hose blows? Do you think maybe that would be a nutty criticism? Yes, it would. Kind of like getting after him for standing up in this video. His videos have helped more divers in a day than you'll help in your entire lifetime. Yeah, I'll cheer him on instead of poking at him for standing in his dive shop instead of crawling around on the floor (which is what that post actually said). Is that not kosher in your clubhouse?

 

[MaxBottomtime]

it makes no sense for normal divers to take an increased risk rather than a lessened risk, by removing a regulator from their mouth when they don't have to.

Every OW student is trained to replace a regulator that has been removed from their mouth, whether from a kick or any reason. They teach you to sweep your arm around behind you, find the reg and place it back in your mouth. That can take several seconds, even more if you don't find it on the first sweep. Donating your primary reg and placing your backup in your mouth shouldn't take any longer than a second or two. The diver shouldn't be in any increased danger if he had taken any OW course available.

 

[pauldw]

Every OW student is trained to replace a regulator that has been removed from their mouth, whether from a kick or any reason. They teach you to sweep your arm around behind you, find the reg and place it back in your mouth. That can take several seconds, even more if you don't find it on the first sweep. Donating your primary reg and placing your backup in your mouth shouldn't take any longer than a second or two. The diver shouldn't be in any increased danger if he had taken any OW course available.

OW students are trained to put the regulator back in because it's important for a regulator to be in your mouth; it's training on dealing with an emergency situation, since a regulator removed from your mouth unexpectedly is a problem what with there being panic and gulping water with more panic and so forth. That training takes place in a controlled environment, with supervision, and with plenty of advance preparation, so there isn't the same level of risk as suddenly having to give up a regulator on an actual dive when you're in need of immediate air, making it a bit of apples and oranges. Which takes us back to the question of whether the average diver--not the average tec diver, but the average diver (who probably dives very few times a year)--needs an additional failure point. Alec isn't wrong for saying that he thinks it isn't necessary

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@pauldw

You do realize that primary donate has been taught by recreational agencies a long time, right?

 

[pauldw]

@pauldw

You do realize that primary donate has been taught by recreational agencies a long time, right?

As an option. Which has nothing to do with the over the top piling on regarding that video. As someone observed early in this thread, the SB piranhas are out in force. It's unseemly, and worth calling out. (Or maybe it's candirus.)

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Which takes us back to the question of whether the average diver--not the average tec diver, but the average diver (who probably dives very few times a year)--needs an additional failure point.

Have you seen the gear that shops push on new divers? You could probably take the average diver here on Scubaboard and point out a few additional failure points in their gear.
The reason for teaching reg replacement on OW is so that divers do not panic when a reg is removed from their mouth unexpectantly. Not every OOA diver is going to rip the reg out of your mouth, but if they do, you should have been trained not to panic.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

As an option. Which has nothing to do with the over the top piling on regarding that video. As someone observed early in this thread, the SB piranhas are out in force. It's unseemly, and worth calling out. (Or maybe it's candirus.)

Not just as an option, as as the primary way. I don't know if they still do it, but a local shop, Silent World, when it was an SSI shop, taught primary donate as students were equipped with Air2s. I have no idea if they still do this or not.

The point is, there are a significant number of divers each year trained to primary donate. Are they them majority? Probably not. Are they an insignificant minority? Minority yes, insignificant, probably not.

Now you are aware that swim throughs are a part of recreational diving. Maybe you read here on ScubaBoard the language that John Adsit penned for them on what is an acceptable swim through and isn't an overhead. Assuming we are not going to argue that swimthroughs are a generally accepted practice, if you had to return through a swim through to get back to shore, how would you share air while doing so? This isn't a made up scenario, as it has happened and the people had to climb over a reef to get back to shore.

So, in your standard configuration, how would you personally @pauldw, handle this situation?

 

[shoredivr]

Oh, bud, if you think this mild bit of discussion is a “piling on”, clearly you never saw the deep stops megathread.

 

[FreeFlyFreak]

Oh I shoul dhave made it clear.

Both of my regs are RH

If the diver is by my side Gas sharing) , then they'll be on my left so hose routing is perfect. If I donate my LH reg to a diver in front of me, then the hose is the correct side for them (no hose crossing nonsense). If they want to steal the reg out of my mouth, then that's cool too. Although to be fair, since I'm on on a scooter a lot of the time, they'd need to be a damn fast swimmer to pounce on me

So if you have to use your back up LH but RH reg, you bring it round the back of your neck?
Or you already have it bungied that way.
Just curious?