A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[Celt]

If you done the training, passed the exam, paid the fees and enjoyed the experience then you have every right to call yourself a master scuba diver if that's what an instructor says you are. In the mid 70,s if an instructor or someone I looked up to said I was a master scuba diver I'd have been thrilled but if someone said it to me tomorrow I wouldn't be so sure.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

My wife took three (maybe five) classes about nature and birds. She did a presentation for each and earned a certificate as a “Master Naturalist.” Is she a Master Naturalist? No. There are still common birds she struggles to ID, but she still enjoyed the classes, and we are proud of her accomplishment. We now frequently combine hiking, kayaking or travel with birding. Did it make her a better hiker? No.

Point is you can take dive classes that don’t make you a better diver, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t worthwhile. Just like a bird ID class increased our enjoyment of hiking, a fish ID class can increase enjoyment of diving. Fish ID is just underwater birding, basically.

 

[johndiver999]

By following the forums a few months and reading up on the subject here, you gained and demonstrate a much more informed view than many have who consider this path.

I don't disagree with any of that. I think the credential/certification encourages some people to get additional formal training, and provides a loose structure to guide that. Just looking over specialty options makes divers aware of some of their options.

The title, and the inappropriately grandiose self-perception it might engender in some, do cause some concern. I think the larger concern is the sales pitch. I consider PADI to have something of an overly enthusiastic 'message' in their ads. Let's see what PADI says about the Master Scuba Diver Course on their website. From their site:

"Join the best of the best, the elite group of respected divers who have earned this rating through both significant experience and scuba training."

"Join the best of the best in recreational scuba diving and live the dive life as a PADI Master Scuba Diver. The Master Scuba Diver rating places you in an elite group of respected divers who have earned this rating through both significant experience and scuba training. Fewer than two percent of divers ever achieve this rating. When you flash your Master Scuba Diver card, people know that you've spent time underwater in a variety of environments and had your share of dive adventures.

Every diver, who is at least 12 years old, should aim for Master Scuba Diver."

So, the company that puts this course out basically claims (to my understanding, at least), that if you earn this rating, you are amongst the best of the best in recreational scuba diving. You are part of an elite group of respected divers (so evidently this is considered prestigious). 'When you flash your Master Scuba Diver card, people know...' And we should all aspire to this?

Never mind whether the credential ought to be given freely if requisites are met, or to be a course rather than a de facto 'scuba degree' for taking required dive coursework. PADI's own statements about it are triggering (and rightly so) to a lot of divers who read that marketing bit.

I was with you until the end there. Obviously PADI is "marketing" courses to prospective customers, so I would expect their language to be as enthusiastic as is reasonable.

However, when they throw in the statement that, upon completion, you will join an "elite" group of twelve year olds.... Well I think that puts it in perspective. They are throwing in a good bit of reality there.

Come work out at our gym, we have the best trainers, equipment and programs. When you have finished our two month program; you will be an elite athlete and be able to compete with 12 yr olds....

 

[Wibble]

You can say you have Rescue, that is well understood.
You can say you have MSD, that is also generally well understood.

They’re the same thing

 

[azstinger11]

Unless it discounts the other certifications (which I've seen shops do) or is awarded freely by a shop/instructor, PADI MSD just seems like it's the PADI profit appreciation certification. There isn't anything inherently wrong with participation certifications, I just don't see the point and don't feel like throwing money away (and as a certification it is 100% wasted money). But if it was the motivation someone needs to knock out the underlying certifications, and hopefully they weren't BS ones, then it served a purpose, just not one I care to participate in. So yeah it can serve a purpose, but it's also a waste of money 99% of the time. If it was free like the SSI model or a course with new or more advanced information like the NAUI one, then it's more valuable. It's the combination of it costing money while as a certification providing nothing, other than perhaps motivation, that is the most flagrant part.

I've seen a few PADI MSD certs listed on boat charters, I always make sure to stay the heck away from them in ye-olde-insta-buddy assignment stages. Those that have them I have generally, but not exclusively, tend to be 0-hero divers with poor overall skills. Give me a fundies diver, give me a diver that with a La County card older than my parents, just don't give me a MSD buddy.

 

[scubadada]

They’re the same thing

No, not the same. MSD with 5 specialties and 50 dives, Rescue after AOW, no more dives, no more training.

 

[100days-a-year]

About as accurate a moniker as an 8 yr old with a black belt. Strictly an ego feeding proposition. Not that the classes don't have value, the title deserves any derision it gets.

 

[scubadada]

Unless it discounts the other certifications (which I've seen shops do) or awarded freely by a shop/instructor, PADI MSD just seems like its the PADI profit appreciation certification. There isn't anything inherently wrong with participation certifications, I just don't see the point and don't feel like throwing money away (and as a certification it is 100% wasted money). But if it was the motivation someone needs to knock out the underlying certifications, and hopefully they weren't BS ones, then it served a purpose, just not one I care to participate in. So yeah it can serve a purpose, but its also a waste of money 99% of the time.

I've seen a few MSD certs listed on boat charters, I always make sure to stay the heck away from them in ye-olde-insta-buddy assignment stages. Those that have them I have generally, but not exclusively, tend to be 0-hero divers with poor overall skills. Give me a fundies diver, give me a diver that with a La County card older than the US Air Force, just don't give me a MSD buddy.

This thread has really gotten out of hand. I have my LA County cert from 1970. I regret that I did not have the opportunity to do the advanced course before I left California in 1980. I was recertified with PADI in 1997 when my son turned 12. I achieved MSD in 2005 and have done no further PADI training. I did SDI solo in 2013 to dive solo with ops that did not know me. I have about 2250 dives now, under a variety of conditions. I don't think any of you would regret having me as a buddy, though I am not looking for one either. This thread has been depressing reading, many posters with limited experience.

 

[azstinger11]

This thread has really gotten out of hand. I have my LA County cert from 1970. I regret that I did not have the opportunity to do the advanced course before I left California in 1980. I was recertified with PADI in 1997 when my son turned 12. I achieved MSD in 2005 and have done no further PADI training. I did SDI solo in 2013 to dive solo with ops that did not know me. I have about 2250 dives now, under a variety of conditions. I don't think any of you would regret having me as a buddy, though I am not looking for one either. This thread has been depressing reading, many posters with limited experience.

With everything, there are shades of grey and nothing is absolute. I can only recount my experiences, and thus far they are generally 0-hero divers with bad skills, it's a pretty small number I've seen (that claimed it) and a high percentage were bad divers. Prior to getting my solo diver cert I would absolutely seek out or avoid divers on the boat based on what they put down on the form and/or gear configurations. Its always a crap shoot and I'll do what I can to hedge my bets to have the best chance a good insta dive buddy. Haven't had the pleasure of being on a boat with you, but as I said originally it was a most, not all. I have yet to see anything that can convince me that paying for a certification that doesn't teach you anything or give you any new skill is worthwhile. If other people like it/want it/need it, good for them they are welcome to line PADI's pockets with their donations. Unless that goal post certification is what they need to get through the underlying certifications that teach them things, I would not recommend it to anyone. SSI and NAUI present reasonable alternative models that aren't flagrant cash grabs. If all a diver is seeking is recognition then go SSI, if they want a bit more education then go NAUI, they want to be a $100 poorer go PADI.

 

[Cthippo]

What would a meaningful amateur dive capstone certification look like? What combination of training and experience, documented by a training org, would make you say "Yeah, that guy probably knows what he is doing"?