A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[scubadada]

Hi @azstinger11

Let me know the next time you and your wife are in SE FL. If you are up for some rec dives, I would be glad to show you around Boynton beach, fantastic diving

 

[azstinger11]

Would love to! Currently trying to figure out a post MBA graduation trip (ironically I now know exactly how poor of a financial idea this is, but don't care lol) in April and SE FL is high on the list.

 

[tursiops]

What does fish ID have in it that actually requires you to be in the water? I can conduct a fish ID class with a large selection of photos.

My opinion, if I can replace the class with a powerpoint, it probably shouldn't be a certification.

I think I see the problem. You apparently think that Fish ID is about looking at pictures. Actually, it's not. You may have noticed that in the pictures, all the fish are about the same size? And the pictures don't hide so all you can see are their eyes or their tail. And the pictures don't swim away. In fact, the pictures don't swim at all, so one of the best clues is not present. In real life, the class is about how to even find the fish, what is their behavior and habitat as an ID clue, and even time of day. and depth. You can ID all the pictures you want, and do an inept and terrible job on a dive. Looking at pictures is a start, just like looking at a video of someone in sidemount, but getting the rigging and trim right is an in-water skill....like Fish ID.

Fish ID is just underwater birding, basically.

Sort of...if you are deaf. Ever noticed how many birders hear and ID the bird before they see it? Try tht underwater. Even if you hear the grunt of a ...well, grunt....you don't know where to look, becasue your hearing is not directional underwater. Think a good birder can learn how to do it from pictures of birds in a book? Nah.

 

[azstinger11]

What would a meaningful amateur dive capstone certification look like? What combination of training and experience, documented by a training org, would make you say "Yeah, that guy probably knows what he is doing"?

That's a really interesting question. Have to think on that.

I think I see the problem. You apparently think that Fish ID is about looking at pictures. Actually, it's not. You may have noticed that in the pictures, all the fish are about the same size? And the pictures don't hide so all you can see are their eyes or their tail. And the pictures don't swim away. In fact, the pictures don't swim at all, so one of the best clues is not present. In real life, the class is about how to even find the fish, what is their behavior and habitat as an ID clue, and even time of day. and depth. You can ID all the pictures you want, and do an inept and terrible job on a dive. Looking at pictures is a start, just like looking at a video of someone in sidemount, but getting the rigging and trim right is an in-water skill....like Fish ID.

Sort of...if you are deaf. Ever noticed how many birders hear and ID the bird before they see it? Try tht underwater. Even if you hear the grunt of a ...well, grunt....you don't know where to look, becasue your hearing is not directional underwater. Think a good birder can learn how to do it from pictures of birds in a book? Nah.

The classroom only pictures sounds like the REEF.org classes. Like all classes, I would say the quality of the course is highly dependent on the instructor. Get a passionate instructor, you can learn a lot. Get an instructor that doesn't care, and well.... you get a credit card bill and a certification.

 

[tursiops]

Get an instructor that doesn't care, and well.... you get a credit card bill and a certification.

ALL classes are like that. Nothing special about Fish ID in that regard.

 

[azstinger11]

ALL classes are like that. Nothing special about Fish ID in that regard.

Absolutely agree, didn't mean to imply otherwise.

 

[doctormike]

I think that I know why there is often an anti-MSD bias.

Calculate a variable [DPC], which stands for dives per certification. In other words, total number of dives divided by total number of certs.

I don't know if this is true or just a stereotype, but I think that there is an assumption that MSDs have DPCs at the low end of the general range.

I think that a diver who really wants to up his or her diving game is much better off pursuing technical training than MSD. And that's true if they never plan to go into deco or dive below "recreational depths" outside of training.

I think that Technical training is a better use of training time and money, because it really isn't about gear or procedures. It's about mindset. It's about making the transition away from the dive plan of "tell the DM when you are at 1500 PSI". It's about approaching every dive by considering the profile, gas, gear issues, decompression stress and potential failure modes well ahead of time. And it may be quicker and cheaper than trying to just get five random cards after AOW/rescue.

 

[lowwall]

What would a meaningful amateur dive capstone certification look like? What combination of training and experience, documented by a training org, would make you say "Yeah, that guy probably knows what he is doing"?

I don't think that's the right question. Rather than concentrating on impressing other people with credentials, individuals would be better off focusing on "the combination of training and experience" that makes them better divers.

As far as classes go, I'd say nitrox and rescue are the most valuable. Nitrox because it lets you safely extend your time in the water and rescue because it should change your mindset in a way that makes you a safer diver regardless of ultimate skill level. I know some suggest a Solo course for similar reasons. Tech courses should do this as well, but I'm assuming that's beyond the bounds of this question.

Beyond that it would be a matter of working on your specific issues. This could be through anything from practicing on your own through a formal class like Peak Performance Buoyancy or even Fundies.

 

[RobPNW]

I have the >50 dives, rescue diver, and about 8 specialties needed for this but never asked for it. For me, it's more a matter of the title than anything. I'm not an idiot but I'm not a master of anything. More accurately, I know a little about a lot, which kinda sounds like the opposite of a master. Honestly, all I care about is making friends, getting wet, learning new things, collecting memories and having fun. I'm not everyone, and some people like having milestones documented to kind of keep them motivated to keep getting better. Do whatever you want. You don't need the blessing of anyone here.

 

[lowwall]

For me, it's more a matter of the title than anything. I'm not an idiot but I'm not a master of anything. More accurately, I know a little about a lot, which kinda sounds like the opposite of a master.

Sounds like me. Except that I've fulfilled all the requirements for my Master of Procrastination. I'll send in the paperwork for the certificate as soon as I'm done reorganizing my bookshelves. And refinishing the dining room table. And maybe losing 25 pounds.