A different take on Master Scuba Diver

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What did MSD yield over simply taking those 9 classes?
A card and a certificate! In all seriousness, it has given me a specific goal around which to structure my diver training, a finite end point for which to aim, and a personal sense of accomplishment. If I hadn’t been working towards it I probably wouldn’t have taken dry suit, Nitrox or wreck, although I would still have taken deep and navigation. So yes, one could call me a sucker for PADI marketing - but who cares? It’s made me a better diver and got me into diving more regularly; if I’d just stopped at Rescue Diver diving would probably have stayed as a once a year holiday hobby rather than once a week obsession. All this is obviously my personal motivation but I don’t think anyone has presented the other side of the story on SB, that I’ve found. There’s a lot of experience on here but I think it’s easy to forget that we all start as beginners, and we all have different reasons for diving.
 
In my opinion, certifications are basically worthless unless they are required as the "ticket" to open doors that others control.......like air fills, custom gas mixes, equipment purchases, dive ops to more advance sites and conditions, etc.

Being a Master Scuba Diver.....or the equivalent of one...... is completely free and does not require any agency involvement. If you are a Master Scuba Diver then just be one and skip the card and save the $50 to get the plastic. Just prove to yourself and others you dive with that you are qualified which is far more important than certified.

Last but not least......when diving with others, trips, LOB's, etc.....for liability reasons, its best to just leave any plastic beyond AOW in your pocket anyway...... When I travel, all I bring is my AOW and Nitrox cards and otherwise STFU about any other certs....
I don’t get why experienced divers on SB take such exception to it though - almost like it causes personal offence to them. Anybody who shows off about it - that’s on them, not the MSD cert.

Also, as mentioned above, it wasn’t free at all. It was 21 training dives, 29 recreational (experience building) dives and five days of theory. Everyone focuses on the fifty bucks for a card but that’s just the end of the process.

Even for a dive-dodger who only does non-diving specialties, that’s still OW, AOW, EFR, RD, five specialties and fifty total dives, which is a fair bit of training and experience.
 
You can meet all the requirements of MSD, but you only get the MSD cert if you pay for it.

Not exactly. I never applied or paid for MSD. I was surprised at a shop fun dive when my instructor presented it to me. It seems he does this for any of his students who meet the criteria.
 
Not exactly. I never applied or paid for MSD. I was surprised at a shop fun dive when my instructor presented to me. It seems he does this for any of his students who meet the criteria.

I hereby qualify my statement...

You can meet all the requirements of MSD, but you only get the MSD cert if you pay for it, unless you are @Bob DBF and have a cool instructor that does it the way PADI SHOULD be doing it.

:thumb:
 
Let me start with congrats on being really close to MSD. It can take time and effort to reach this rating, especially if you take it seriously and put in real work to improve your diving. I am happy when people get all excited about reaching MSD because it means they are out there having fun and diving. I feel like we as a community should be getting excited with people when they are excited about an achievement in scuba, even if we think the program wasn't worth the cost. Bringing positivity to the community and encouraging new divers to keep on diving should be our goal here.

I think personally my issue with the PADI MSD is not with a lack of value in the courses/time you take to get there, it is the value in the actual MSD card/cert itself. Taking the 5 individual specialties can be very valuable, especially for a newer diver that maybe isn't so great at self motivation or at finding experienced buddies to dive with and get feedback from. CAN be. As is normally the consensus around here, it is mostly dependent on the instructor you choose and how much work and effort you put into the courses. You CAN just skate through, doing the bare minimum with an instructor that is just pushing out certs. Or, you could have picked an instructor that pushes you, expects a lot, and gives you information and feedback beyond the bare minimum check boxes for the courses. The Rescue Diver course is also a pretty valuable course, especially with a great instructor. The 50 dives required are also valuable, as we can probably agree that time actually diving and figuring things out in varying conditions is what makes you a better diver.

So you have done the 5 specialties, rescue, and 50+ dives. That is absolutely valuable and fantastic. But, the next step is to pay ~$75 to actually "earn" this rating. Okay, so what is paying money getting you? A title. That's it. You are gaining no additional experience or value beyond being able to show a Master Scuba Diver card. Two divers with the exact same experience and courses can exist, one a MSD and one not, all because of a $75 fee. I agree with the people that say that MSD should have a skills check or written test to go along with that application fee to really make it "earned" and not just "paid for." If there isn't a test or check, then it should be "earned" once all the min requirements are met, and not charge some stupidly high fee just to get a card. I get in comparison to the rest of scuba diving, $75 isn't much. But some of us ARE on a budget and that $75 could be the difference between getting some much needed gear or not.

Now, a slightly alternate opinion. "Having the MSD card makes me feel good, happy, and I feel proud that I put all that time/effort into taking these courses." Okay, I can see that. People pay that much + some to get frames and displays for certifications/degrees/etc that they have earned. They earned the recognition without needing to pay that fee for the fancy frame. But the fancy frame makes them feel good. I guess I view the MSD like a fancy picture frame. You want to buy that nice frame? Go for it! But keep in mind that people may view you hanging that frame in public view as "stuck on yourself" or something similar.

I have two actual concerns for the MSD rating. One: Organizations see people spending money while not actually gaining anything. They decide "hey, we can make even MORE money off similar things," and start adding extra weird **** that doesn't add value to the scuba community and just costs more money. Two: inexperienced divers may either have this rating or be buddied with someone that does and think "wow, this diver (or "I am") super experienced and I can do anything [with them]." This could be potentially dangerous. Yes, divers should realistically know their own limits and they should be realistic about their buddy's experience, but do we really need to make it more difficult by shoving in a rating called "master" that is not actually a master of anything?

I say this all as someone that does have the Master Scuba Diver rating myself. For whatever ridiculous reason, an organization I was part of required it to be a released diver, to function as part of the team on an incident and not just be an "in-training" member. I think they just needed to pick a rating that they could put in the SOPs so that there was SOMETHING in the SOPs. I personally found zero value in having the actual rating, but I did find value in some of the courses I had to take to get there. I took my specialties with a variety of instructors and shops, and I found some of them to be fantastic (and my diving significantly improved) and some of them to be an absolute s*** show that I would have been irritated to waste the money on (however it was not my money being spent, so I had a positive experience through it as "diving I don't have to pay for).

EDIT: To speak to the "only show the AOW/Nitrox for liability reasons" post... I can see only showing those because those are realistically the only ones you NEED to show to do the dives, so why be a show off. But, as far as liability goes, I imagine if there is an incident on a dive that you are a part of, or on a boat you are on, the hoards of lawyers will happily pull up the names and ratings of every single person on that boat, even if you didn't flash anything above OW on the boat. It is VERY easy to look up diver ratings, so you aren't hiding any of that from the lawyers.
 
Master Diver = the required subspecialties that most experienced divers have + naivity and willingness to part with over $100 for a piece of useless plastic.
 
Why can't this be done with tech skills? A video of yourself in SM, for example?
SIdemount is an example of a class that can be done both ways. There aren't really any new skills for recreation sidemount. Supermanning tanks is more of an advanced cave sidemount skill. An instructor or mentorship under a skilled buddy can speed up the setup, but with enough time and patience you can do it via video too.

Tech skills OTOH does require in person in water skills demonstration.
 
Do you have any evidence for this liability concern?
Nope...... Just general experience dealing with attorneys who will look at any possible "window of blame" or "money pocket" when trying to collect their 40%. If you are buddied up or possibly even near a diver who has a mishap, injury or worse....... and you had previously promoted or identified yourself as an instructor, DM, MSD, Rescue Diver, etc.......... then a blood sucking attorney will have no problem trying to establish that you may have had some implied responsibility to take action...

Also, if you promote or identify yourself as an instructor, DM, MSD, Rescue Diver, etc...... a blood sucking attorney will have no problem trying to establish that the injured party may have had a reasonable expectation to rely on you....
 
Nope...... Just general experience dealing with attorneys who will look at any possible "window of blame" or "money pocket" when trying to collect their 40%. If you are buddied up or possibly even near a diver who has a mishap, injury or worse....... and you had previously promoted or identified yourself as an instructor, DM, MSD, Rescue Diver, etc.......... then a blood sucking attorney will have no problem trying to establish that you may have had some implied responsibility to take action...

Also, if you promote or identify yourself as an instructor, DM, MSD, Rescue Diver, etc...... a blood sucking attorney will have no problem trying to establish that the injured party may have had a reasonable expectation to rely on you....
That same "blood-sucking attorney" will investigate the actual credentials of everybody on the boat....you are not safe just showing your AOW card. Hey, if it makes you feel better, go for it.
 
Tech skills OTOH does require in person in water skills demonstration.
So do ALL in-water classes, even Fish ID.

There aren't really any new skills for recreation sidemount
Trim for AL80s? BCD/bungee adjustment? If it is so easy why do so many beginning SM divers look so crappy in the water? If they take a class they quickly get set up right and gets lots of practice and feedback.
 
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