A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[Leatherboot69]

This has been a very interesting read, especially with all of the comments over the past 24 hours.

What PADI is missing on the MSD card is the list of dive courses taken to achieve that card, which would provide further information about the diver, plus the MSD card would be probably the only card one would need to carry.

I agree. Ok, I understand all the arguments about handing over cash and not needing extra training for the rating etc. But it would be a step in the right direction if the MSD card summarised all of the training required to obtain it; to move the focus from the title to the training

 

[Leatherboot69]

But it can be several years of enjoyment. A lot of people do what your doing and give it up after a year or two. Which is fine if its not for them. But some become overwhelmed if its to fast and doesn't go quite like they imagined. Taking a little time to get some diving done with friends where there's no pressure to perform gives you time to slip into your own underwater zone where your happy and comfortable. It's hard to explain but everyone has it.

That’s true. I front loaded a lot of my training (for no other reason than I really enjoyed it) but I found going out on normal (non-training) dives, and also pool dives, without an instructor or a class was where I could practice, think things through and embed new skills, as well as also being enjoyable.

 

[Rayk]

19 pages and I am still waiting for the part that we agree on certifications which makes diver able to do certain things that wasn’t possible previously without that certification worth to take and rest is endless money pit of the agencies.

 

[Cthippo]

19 pages and I am still waiting for the part that we agree on certifications which make diver able to do certain things that wasn’t possible previously without that certification worth to take and rest is endless money pit of the agencies.

You're going to need more popcorn

 

[Leatherboot69]

But it can be several years of enjoyment. A lot of people do what your doing and give it up after a year or two. Which is fine if its not for them. But some become overwhelmed if its to fast and doesn't go quite like they imagined. Taking a little time to get some diving done with friends where there's no pressure to perform gives you time to slip into your own underwater zone where your happy and comfortable. It's hard to explain but everyone has it.

As I understand it, PADI originally modularised diver training, splitting previously months long courses (BSAC-style) into bite size chunks, in theory (I’m not trying to argue one is better than the other) making diving more accessible to more people? So OW (as I found the course) is the minimum training required to be able to dive safely in conditions similar to those in which the course was conducted?

My impression from SB and this thread is that this has created a two tier diving industry; on the one hand, there’s ‘all of you’ (waves hand nonchalantly)-aiming to be the best divers you can be, taking extra courses, making it part of your lifestyle… doing Fundies (lol); and there’s also ‘the masses’, diving on holiday in benign places, needing the minimum skills to do that safely, often under direct or indirect supervision, not that fussed about progressing beyond beginner level. It doesn’t seem like the two meet in the middle, which is probably where I’d place myself.

(It would be great if there was a certification aimed at that middle ground. Oh wait… )

 

[Celt]

As I understand it, PADI originally modularised diver training, splitting previously months long courses (BSAC-style) into bite size chunks, in theory (I’m not trying to argue one is better than the other) making diving more accessible to more people? So OW (as I found the course) is the minimum training required to be able to dive safely in conditions similar to those in which the course was conducted?

My impression from SB and this thread is that this has created a two tier diving industry; on the one hand, there’s ‘all of you’ (waves hand nonchalantly)-aiming to be the best divers you can be, taking extra courses, making it part of your lifestyle… doing Fundies (lol); and there’s also ‘the masses’, diving on holiday in benign places, needing the minimum skills to do that safely, often under direct or indirect supervision, not that fussed about progressing beyond beginner level. It doesn’t seem like the two meet in the middle, which is probably where I’d place myself.

(It would be great if there was a certification aimed at that middle ground. Oh wait… )

Yes the PADI system works as it gets people in the water quickly, you can travel to most dive destinations and be in the water as a complete beginner in a day. But to get the most out of your new adventure spending time diving with friends is great. How far you take it is entirely up to you, but all the best.

 

[scubadada]

This has been a very interesting read, especially with all of the comments over the past 24 hours.

What PADI is missing on the MSD card is the list of dive courses taken to achieve that card, which would provide further information about the diver, plus the MSD card would be probably the only card one would need to carry.

Back in the day, that being 2005, PADI would put nitrox on your MSD card. I sent a few messages to them about including other specialties, they never went for it. This is essentially the only card I show. I have showed my DPV card a couple of times to rent a DPV and avoid the guided 1st dive requirement. I have been asked for my SDI Solo card a few times. Nobody has ever cared to see my Deep card, having AOW is adequate for all "advanced" dives.

 

[Marie13]

As I understand it, PADI originally modularised diver training, splitting previously months long courses (BSAC-style) into bite size chunks, in theory (I’m not trying to argue one is better than the other) making diving more accessible to more people? So OW (as I found the course) is the minimum training required to be able to dive safely in conditions similar to those in which the course was conducted?

My impression from SB and this thread is that this has created a two tier diving industry; on the one hand, there’s ‘all of you’ (waves hand nonchalantly)-aiming to be the best divers you can be, taking extra courses, making it part of your lifestyle… doing Fundies (lol); and there’s also ‘the masses’, diving on holiday in benign places, needing the minimum skills to do that safely, often under direct or indirect supervision, not that fussed about progressing beyond beginner level. It doesn’t seem like the two meet in the middle, which is probably where I’d place myself.

(It would be great if there was a certification aimed at that middle ground. Oh wait… )

The Fundies people are small number. Many more will have taken tech classes with another agency.

There is a also a divide between local/regional divers and the holiday/vacation divers. There are a lot of local divers on SB.

 

[Lorenzoid]

A lot to catch up on since I left this thread yesterday!

So if a diver doesn’t intend to . . . dive in a team (apart from their buddy, and as opposed to a ‘group’ rather than a ‘team’) . . .

I missed this statement yesterday, and I just wanted to add that a two-person "team" is completely acceptable for GUE divers. When my wife and I are diving together, we act as a "team" in the sense GUE uses the term. In tropical vacation diving, our "team" is really no different than a buddy pair with good buddy skills--essentially the same skills PADI says buddies should have. Don't get hung up on the term "team" diving.

I have to say, of all the courses I’ve done so far, Rescue was probably the one I found the easiest. Not just to pass, but to pass ‘actively’, ie trying to do as well as possible.

I found PADI Rescue to be THE most challenging PADI course I took. The reason is that Rescue was the first course in which I was not always made aware of what would happen next. As you know, the instructor may spring scenarios on you, and it isn't always immediately obvious how you and your classmates are supposed to handle the situation. I did not experience that again until I took a cave diving course. In the OW course--even in Fundies!--while it was all new to me, there were no surprises; when the instructor asked us to perform skill X, we performed skill X.

Sure, I understand. But the implication of that is that an ‘experienced’ diver should be able to be dropped into any body of water anywhere in the world and cope with it. Rather than courses teaching generic skills that are then tailored to local environments through further training and experience relevant to the diver. If I was from Australia and would only ever dive in the tropics, why would I need to learn to dive in low viz, cold U.K. waters to be considered an experienced diver?

I recall this debate from previous threads: how to measure "experience." Is a diver with 100 dives in varied and challenging environments more experienced than a diver with thousands of dives on tropical reefs? I still think about this, especially when I meet one of the latter types of diver on a liveaboard or at a dive resort. That diver may indeed be the expert among us in that environment. "How to measure experience" is a topic unto itself.

19 pages and I am still waiting for the part that we agree on certifications which makes diver able to do certain things that wasn’t possible previously without that certification worth to take and rest is endless money pit of the agencies.

PADI Deep Diver was the last PADI course I took before realizing there may be alternative training routes. My takeaway from my Deep course was: diving in the range of 100-130 feet exposes you to increased risk, and you might consider simply not doing it, but if you choose to do it, these are some issues to consider, and oh by the way, consider using a pony bottle. My Deep course did not actually teach me a methodology for diving in that depth range. I did not leave the course knowing exactly how I would do my next deep dive. I got the impression PADI would be just as happy if I never dived that deep. I found the course to be a waste of time and money. Nothing really "new" to me was taught. Other instructors may teach the same course differently--I don't know. I did not take the PADI Wreck diving course, but my guess is my takeaway would be similar.

I realized there are other courses available that will actually teach you a way to dive in that depth range and stand behind what they teach. Some may be considered "tech" courses--I'm not sure. I know GUE offers Recreational Diver 3 (Rec 3), which is GUE's version of a deep diving course. Rec 3 is "a limited decompression course structured to teach advanced diving skills, prepare divers for utilizing decompression cylinders with double tanks, and to breathe helium-based breathing mixtures appropriate for deeper recreational diving to 39 m/130 ft." One can criticize the methodology that is taught, noting helium is expensive if it's even possible to find, etc., and argue what they are teaching is not really "recreational," but at least they are being straightforward with you and teaching you something new and actually expecting you will put it all into practice. There's value in that.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Back in the day, that being 2005, PADI would put nitrox on your MSD card. I sent a few messages to them about including other specialties, they never went for it. This is essentially the only card I show. I have showed my DPV card a couple of times to rent a DPV and avoid the guided 1st dive requirement. I have been asked for my SDI Solo card a few times. Nobody has ever cared to see my Deep card, having AOW is adequate for all "advanced" dives.

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You know if they turned it into a "One card to rule them all" card, I would pay for master if I qualified. As it would eliminate cards out of my wallet.

Right now I carry nitrox, AOW, and my self-reliant card. I would like to get drysuit if I ever decide to go to Iceland where it is required (despite the fact that I have 100 drysuit dives). Maybe do deep to round out the five and then I have one card that would check off all the requirements that you are likely to encounter for a rec dive.