A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[Leatherboot69]

But there not divers, anyone who can't plan and execute a dive in unknown water and conditions, unassisted, is a learner diver.

That’s quite a high bar! Even for BSAC with their lengthy but comprehensive training programme that would be Advanced Diver, post Dive Leader/Dive Master. That’s several years worth of diving!

 

[Wibble]

That’s quite a high bar! Even for BSAC with their lengthy but comprehensive training programme that would be Advanced Diver, post Dive Leader/Dive Master. That’s several years worth of diving!

That's kind of the point.

Diving in warm, clear, benign conditions is trivially easy up against cold, poor visibility, in a current, dark, around wrecks, etc., common for UK diving for example.

 

[Jake 10]

That's kind of the point.

Diving in warm, clear, benign conditions is trivially easy up against cold, poor visibility, in a current, dark, around wrecks, etc., common for UK diving for example.

And that is why there are clases, books, trainings, certifications, practice, and more diving experience….. because no one was born knowing how to dive in these conditions

 

[ScubaSamScubaStevesFather]

Master scuba just seems like a way for the agency to make some extra rev

 

[Leatherboot69]

Eleven dives really isn't much diving.

The point about Rescue Diver is that you need to have enough skills and experience to be able to assist another diver. More than that it's about preventing problems in the first place and being competent enough to not become another casualty. Much of this is noticing when something's wrong -- looking at a random diver and seeing that, say, their drysuit's not connected or they're looking "wrong".

Of course we're all different and some people naturally pick up skills very quickly whereas others take some time to absorb and perfect the skills; some never master the skills.

My real concern about achieving RD in that time is the syllabus coverage and the time to practice, really absorb the skills, be self-reliant and develop your own opinions. One has to assume that you had an amazing trainer, great conditions and you have the innate ability to learn this.

For me, RD took considerably longer than that, especially with the beasting of a final scenario rescue in poor visibility to search for a missing diver in a current, assess them, bring them to the surface and all the other skills. It was a hard but very fulfilling course.

Oh sure, I’m the first to admit eleven dives was nothing. It was in benign tropical conditions too (I have my first temperate zone sea dives this weekend). But in terms of meeting the standard required at the end of the course, is the implication therefore that the standard isn’t appropriate? Equally, I just didn’t think the skills taught were that complicated. I found it was bit like being in the military-working as a team, following processes, communicating, operating equipment, responding to casualties-it all ‘felt’ the same, just under water. I take your point about experience and intuition though, although you can’t really teach that in a course.

I have to say, of all the courses I’ve done so far, Rescue was probably the one I found the easiest. Not just to pass, but to pass ‘actively’, ie trying to do as well as possible. Open Water or Wreck were probably the hardest to do well at. OW because it was all completely new, obviously; Wreck because it exposed something I hadn’t yet ‘mastered’ (maintaining neutral buoyancy whilst performing a fiddly task!) and was the first time I’d dived in low and zero visibility. Actually I came away from wreck appreciating that if I wanted to do it ‘properly’ I needed more wreck specific training (or just practice-I’m not interested in tec)

 

[Leatherboot69]

That's kind of the point.

Diving in warm, clear, benign conditions is trivially easy up against cold, poor visibility, in a current, dark, around wrecks, etc., common for UK diving for example

Sure, I understand. But the implication of that is that an ‘experienced’ diver should be able to be dropped into any body of water anywhere in the world and cope with it. Rather than courses teaching generic skills that are then tailored to local environments through further training and experience relevant to the diver. If I was from Australia and would only ever dive in the tropics, why would I need to learn to dive in low viz, cold U.K. waters to be considered an experienced diver?

 

[Wibble]

Not dropped anywhere, but someone who’s got a wider range of skills than diving in one location or benign conditions.

There’s a saying in scuba: the more I dive the less I know.

When I started I didn’t know enough to know I knew very little. After many hundreds of hours of diving in varying conditions I know that there’s so much more to learn. Most of that is developing the skills I’ve been taught or developed into solid experience.

Getting out of a mess one finds oneself in often draws heavily upon that experience.


Having said that, am off to a warm destination tomorrow to do some simple single cylinder diving, probably off a cattle boat in near perfect warm conditions. Am really quite nervous of that as I’ll be well outside of my comfort zone.

 

[Ukmc]

I have a different take on MSD. First of all, I have not met a single diver who was flaunting their MSD or even showing off a “wallet full of carts”. So it sounds like a made up issue to me, but this is just my experience. If I know someone who has completed MSD, it tells me that that person has gone through the effort of furthering their knowledge in subjects of diving. This is a good thing in my book.
it does not tell me if someone is a good diver, but neither is the number of dives.
On the other hand, I can tell you that I have seen divers with reported hundreds of dives who looked terrible in the water, were careless to their surroundings and just not nice.
Now if I was on a PADI system, I don’t think I would pay a dime for MSD. With SSI, it comes as a recognition and not a cert - no extra fees. I recommend to my friends to get MSD recognition, but not all at once. Once they do, it shows me that they are interested in continues education.

 

[TMHeimer]

Eleven dives really isn't much diving.

The point about Rescue Diver is that you need to have enough skills and experience to be able to assist another diver. More than that it's about preventing problems in the first place and being competent enough to not become another casualty. Much of this is noticing when something's wrong -- looking at a random diver and seeing that, say, their drysuit's not connected or they're looking "wrong".

Of course we're all different and some people naturally pick up skills very quickly whereas others take some time to absorb and perfect the skills; some never master the skills.

My real concern about achieving RD in that time is the syllabus coverage and the time to practice, really absorb the skills, be self-reliant and develop your own opinions. One has to assume that you had an amazing trainer, great conditions and you have the innate ability to learn this.

For me, RD took considerably longer than that, especially with the beasting of a final scenario rescue in poor visibility to search for a missing diver in a current, assess them, bring them to the surface and all the other skills. It was a hard but very fulfilling course.

I found the PADI Rescue Course reasonably easy physically, but tough mentally. I think these courses vary a lot as per the instructor. The only problem being a RD is that while you can practice the skills after certified, you may never be in a position to do a serious rescue. I've talked to several experienced instructors who have taught many courses and haven't done a real rescue yet. But, all you can do is practice and hope you will respond correctly.

 

[Kimela]

Just keep diving. Let everything else fall into its rightful place.