A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[BoltSnap]

Somebody celebrating receiving their PADI MSD card is no worse or any less deserving to "brag" than somebody who received their GUE fundies. Neither certification is required to go diving anywhere and doesn't give the diver any special privileges. Both certifications, in their own way, give the student special knowledge and skills. The PADI MSD certification does it by requiring several specialties to receive the MSD card while the GUE Fundies is a specific standalone course.

What I don't understand is the person on SB who doesn't leave an opportunity to brag about his Fundies and pushing Fundies to everyone coming on SB but he chastises and insults somebody who has completed five specialties in diving and received a recognition card for this achievement (there is one specific person who does this frequently on SB). Point here is that MSD is perhaps used by some to brag/show off but the GUE is just the same, used by many to brag and show off when many others use the certs and training for their own personal diving knowledge and skills development. Each level/certification has its own special way of doing things to enhance the diver's skills and knowledge.

Personally, I believe that the NAUI MSD program is the top program in diver training and knowledge/skill development for the recreational diver but each to his own and no one has a monopoly on the truth or how to become a better diver. If the OP feels they have gained useful and measurable skills and knowledge from the PADI MSD and are better and more capable divers after the course, then great and congratulations to him!!

 

[Ayisha]

...I show my PADI AOW or Rescue card when I do OW rec diving...

I show my MSD (haha, I said it) and EANx cards when I travel for dives or dive with a new-to-me shop that asks for certs.
I have started taking my Fundies card just so shops get used to seeing the card, but I've still never shown it.

I've always thought that the backlash against the PADI MSD is due to the name and marketing, much like PADI AOW.
If you go in and come out with the understanding that there's much more to learn and experience if you choose to do so, it's all good.

Probably any specialty that is taken has some value in knowledge or more experience or whatever drew the diver to that specialty.
More in-water time, whether just diving or in a course, does wonders to improve our diving.

Most of us have been there, when the diving bug bites us, and we want to take as many courses and do as many dives as possible. Courses with an instructor are what we're familiar and comfortable with at first, and then we branch out. Soon, we realize (or the LDS tells us) that we are so close to reaching MSD, so we just do the last couple of specialties or Rescue. And low and behold, they have a Move Up plan, and look at how much cheaper each specialty is.

At least, that's how it came about for me 20 years ago and for some others I know. I was having a blast and got my MSD card in 6 months.

 

[Cthippo]

Somebody celebrating their receiving their PADI MSD card is no worse or any less deserving to "brag" than somebody who received their GUE fundies. Neither certification is required to go diving anywhere and doesn't give the diver any special privileges. Both certifications, in their own way, give the student special knowledge and skills. The PADI MSD certification does it by requiring several specialties to receive the MSD card while the GUE Fundies is a specific course.

Would you agree that having MSD puts you in the upper half of divers in terms of training received? Upper quarter? Top 10%?

I think it's fairly safe to say most people who get OW certified never go beyond that level, or beyond AOW. Someone with MSD certainly has more training than the average diver, and probably has more experience, though they may not indeed have better skills.

 

[tursiops]

As for your question, is trim necessary for gas sharing; without good trim, it is easier to lose control of your buoyancy because of lack of resistance against the water and potential issues in venting your drysuit and wing. Additionally, horizontal trim is required for effective propulsion. Having effective propulsion is required to be able to safely and efficiently donate gas. So while it may not be the most important aspect, it is required to provide a platform for you to perform the other skills proficiently.

Sttrrreeettccchh....

 

[Ayisha]

Somebody celebrating their receiving their PADI MSD card is no worse or any less deserving to "brag" than somebody who received their GUE fundies. Neither certification is required to go diving anywhere and doesn't give the diver any special privileges.

I agree in principle, except maybe "doesn't give the diver any special privileges".

A GUE Fundamentals card shows EANx and allows a diver who may not have a separate EANx cert to get EANx fills.
Same for those who have 30/30 on their Fundies card and can get that helium mix.
If their Fundies card says doubles and/or drysuit, they can show they have training if they're renting doubles or a drysuit or joining a dive that requires training to be shown.

 

[Leatherboot69]

You undermined your point in your response in a previous post you made on this thread where you wrote about the fact that you didn't like that NAUI includes dive theory in their MSD certification course...

...NAUI MSD is a recreational level course. Are you stipulating that the level of dive theory taught/discussed in the NAUI course is "Pro Level" because you have inferred that from the way PADI packages it?

There are lots of divers on the planet and I would argue that the vast majority of them are not, how I would define, good divers.

Your approach to diving, training, knowledge, etc, is, well, your approach....if it works for you then all good, I guess.

-Z

I think you’ve misunderstood what I wrote. NAUI includes dive theory (beyond the OW level) as part of (amateur) MSD. PADI includes it as an optional course for amateur divers, and compulsory for (professional) DMs and above. The main difference is where it sits in the training pipeline. PADI has decided it’s only necessary for professional divers. NAUI hasn’t. Who cares? Recreational divers aren’t dying because they haven’t completed 16 hours and more of dive theory, and if they had to it would probably put a lot off for no good reason.

 

[Leatherboot69]

Would you agree that having MSD puts you in the upper half of divers in terms of training received? Upper quarter? Top 10%?

I think it's fairly safe to say most people who get OW certified never go beyond that level, or beyond AOW. Someone with MSD certainly has more training than the average diver, and probably has more experience, though they may not indeed have better skills.

I read somewhere (not fact checked) that the average diver only has ten dives?

 

[azstinger11]

I read somewhere (not fact checked) that the average diver only has ten dives?

Scuba has a very high abandonment rate. Get people that get certified on or for a warm water vacation, and never do it again. So you have an incredibly high number of people with a very low number of dives. I'm sure the percent of "active" divers to certified divers is rather obscene.

 

[Celt]

I read somewhere (not fact checked) that the average diver only has ten dives?

But there not divers, anyone who can't plan and execute a dive in unknown water and conditions, unassisted, is a learner diver.

 

[Wibble]

I went straight OW>AOW>RD in eleven dives over ten days (including theory and EFR).

Serious question, not a humblebrag - why wow? I did two UW Navigation specialty dives in that eleven days too. It was good training but I wouldn’t say it was difficult to learn and meet the pass-out standards. I started on OW and the dive school up-sold me AOW, and then I decided to continue on to Rescue, UW Navigation and four rec dives as I enjoyed it so much.

The forum regulars seem to have conflicting views. On the one hand, I read Rescue is something everybody should have as an essential skill. On the other hand, the same threads say that you should wait and draw out your dive training to ‘build experience’ in some ambiguous way. Personally I think if you pick it up (not everybody does-my girlfriend being an example), you’re reasonably practical and you’re used to receiving training OW>AOW>RD straight through is easy. In fact I’d even say I found it a good way to train-each course built on the previous one rather than having gaps in between. The bits I’ve found more difficult are dry suit, DSMB and maintaining buoyancy and trim whilst tying off a safety line in zero viz.

Eleven dives really isn't much diving.

The point about Rescue Diver is that you need to have enough skills and experience to be able to assist another diver. More than that it's about preventing problems in the first place and being competent enough to not become another casualty. Much of this is noticing when something's wrong -- looking at a random diver and seeing that, say, their drysuit's not connected or they're looking "wrong".

Of course we're all different and some people naturally pick up skills very quickly whereas others take some time to absorb and perfect the skills; some never master the skills.

My real concern about achieving RD in that time is the syllabus coverage and the time to practice, really absorb the skills, be self-reliant and develop your own opinions. One has to assume that you had an amazing trainer, great conditions and you have the innate ability to learn this.

For me, RD took considerably longer than that, especially with the beasting of a final scenario rescue in poor visibility to search for a missing diver in a current, assess them, bring them to the surface and all the other skills. It was a hard but very fulfilling course.