A different take on Master Scuba Diver
- Thread starter Leatherboot69
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The aim should be to learn to take control of your diving and not to be dependent on others. When you can plan and execute a dive you gain the confidence to dive in more difficult conditions and not have to say no. Obviously its a long journey and has to be taken slowly but it really is very satisfying to be able to stand on a beach or on a boat over an unknown site and be fully confident in your ability to carry out a safe and enjoyable dive. Of course we're all still learning.
Ayisha
Contributor
My MSD card is a couple of years older than yours and faded, but it doesn't have EANx on it. I wonder when they started and stopped putting Enriched Air Diver on the card?
If it gets folks out diving and learning useful skills I can see the value in it.
It is my belief that MSD should have required classes to include rescue, deep, nitrox, search and recovery, drysuit, self reliant, navigation. night and altitude with 200 minimum logged dives. As it is now PADI simply requires Rescue plus five specialty classes. So photographer, videographer, mermaid, boat (seems like it should be part of OW), naturalist, and DSMB (again, should be part of OW) with 50 logged dives gets you MSD. It’s like they don’t really care about the overall skills a diver has, just that he’s buying c-cards.
It is my belief that MSD should have required classes to include rescue, deep, nitrox, search and recovery, drysuit, self reliant, navigation. night and altitude with 200 minimum logged dives. As it is now PADI simply requires Rescue plus five specialty classes. So photographer, videographer, mermaid, boat (seems like it should be part of OW), naturalist, and DSMB (again, should be part of OW) with 50 logged dives gets you MSD. It’s like they don’t really care about the overall skills a diver has, just that he’s buying c-cards.
Blackcrusader
Contributor
Two years for me with BSAC with classes twice a week and not even to Dive Leader
There is certianly truth to this - but I also respect that I am not a professional diver. I have no goals that include being a professional diver. As such there are conditions or locations that a professional diver would be capable of diving at (with varying degrees of caution) that I have no business attempting to dive in to begin with. I also have no desire to dive in conditions like this, since I only dive for fun.
Am I able to research a beach reef dive location and then plan a dive and dive a plan? Most likely yes. West Maui is a good example of this. While I have not dove every location on west Maui, I believe I could research, plan, and dive most.
The exception here is breakneck beach. Makena beach is well known for a serious shore break that has inured and killed several people. I would not try to dive there without a local guide.
Can I plan a dive among the glaciers in Iceland? Nope. But I’m okay with that.
I haven’t done any blue water dives, or wall dives yet. At the moment my dive partner won’t allow those as she’s a jr OWD, so I may reevaluate those as she ages. So far I’ve been very happy with shallow reefs.
This is similar to my habits as a pilot. I am a sport pilot and I fly for fun. I never fly because I have to; I fly because I want to. I don’t fly at night. I don’t fly if it’s windy. I don’t fly if it’s cloudy. I don’t fly into class B airspace.
Am I less of a pilot because I won’t fly in storms or very congested airspace? I argue no I am not. To your first statement, yes my crosswind tolerance has increased the more I fly, and i can land in shorter distances than when i started training, but i am not an IFR pilot. I am not a bad weather pilot. I just understand and accept my limitations because my “needs” are met.
Blackcrusader
Contributor
This and you wrote you did OW AOW and Rescue in 11 dives. I'm like wtf?
I am not a professional diver in any sense of the meaning. I did Padi OW in January 1986 then BSAC classes for two years 86 - 88 , then dive a lot since then. I redid PADI rescue in 2014 as rescue I did in BSAC. Still BSAC rescue far more demanding in my training for that.
So I'm just a recreational diver. I've never seen anyone present an MSD padi card. Basically I just use my Padi rescue cert and nitrox card for diving. Sometimes I get a UK resort owner who knows BSAC so then maybe use BSAC.
Doing TDI ANDP later this year as want to get back into some deco diving. I generally do around 200 - 250 vacation dives a year.
I do not understand why you would be happy to pay for a course that does not even leave you being competent in the skills taught.
I will dive with vacation divers with OW and have had fun dives with less experienced divers. Actually the fun is all mine as they tag along with me watching me take photos and videos. They get to see things they might have otherwise missed and I get to basically almost do a solo dive with an instabuddy. I lead they follow, guides are fine with a bit of separation as long as we get back to the boat or shore at the appointed time.
Underwater your certs mean nothing. Rescue Nitrox MSD DM Instructor it's all just bling to me on a dive. Next week off to Bali for three weeks diving with an active instructor / TDI ANDP cert diver. He likes diving with me as his buddy. He only shows his instructor cert to the dive centers to get discounts but he does not tell other divers he is an instructor. Often we are just "vacation divers" like everyone else. Just we both have thousands of dives.
For me it is the diving and experience from that rather than the "specialty cards" offered by PADI. I think it's and easy sell from PADI to new divers who want to be "the best of the best of the best" lol Excuse my laughing at that but its marketing to people who do not understand they will only be the best of the best of sweet eff all.
Maybe I'm just getting too old and too cynical. Just get out there and dive I say.
If I were to create a training and experience trajectory to guide a diver to achieve his or her own version of what a Master Scuba Diver might be, solely at the recreational level, it would be the following:
Certification Courses:
1. Watermanship: The gold standard would be passing a surf lifeguard course with a USLA-certified beach patrol, earning an EMT license, and working part-time or full-time for a couple of seasons as a surf lifeguard so rescues and assists become just another day at the office. The time and fitness standards might only be possible for younger divers who don't have family responsibilities. A silver medal would go to taking the American Red Cross Lifeguard Training course with the Waterfront add-on. Most rescues will find their way to the surface so having the swimming skills to make rescues is a must to be considered a Master Scuba Diver. An engineer friend of mine who was a PADI course director took my advice and went through a lifeguard class at the age of 50. He said I was right about the value. It changed the way he viewed safety in diving.
2. The next course would be a freediving course. Quality snorkeling and breath-hold diving education would create more confidence and teach the diver how to breathe better, relax, slow down, and become efficient in the water. The diver would also have the ability to dive deep without SCUBA to perform quick tasks such as recovering objects dropped over the side of a boat or make quick rescues without needing to gear up. Buy freediving gear! It will open up a whole unique world.
3. The third course would be a traditional open water course such NAUI, SSI, or PADI. This would put the diver on the same page as most entry-level divers in the world. Their materials are also easy to understand and learning is not that difficult. Don't buy gear. Just a mask with a better field of vision than a freediving mask and Jet style fins.
4. Time for nitrox! The best nitrox course will kill two birds with one stone. Take a GUE-F course and dial in your trim, buoyancy, and propulsion skills. Buy your gear and start breathing a better gas.
5. Now, you can pursue advanced open water. The most important part of advanced diving is navigation. You can practice in the woods with your dive compass before class. If you get good at the compass courses Eagle Scouts often install in state parks as projects, you'll be on your way. Learn to swim straight lines and to navigate while swimming at 15 feet (safety stop depth) while keeping your team together. Squares and triangles are built on straight lines. The goal is to be able to locate a vertical line rather than a large object. Quarries are excellent for this. Choose an AOW instructor who has a cave or DIR background so you'll learn to use lights at night like a cave diver. You'll need search & recovery to be a Master Scuba Diver. A public safety diving instructor is often very good at rigging heavy anchors and such because they can raise cars. Equipment repair and maintenance are also a must. You need to be able to fix your wetsuit or drysuit. Stay wet for now. Don't combine AOW with drysuit. Bad things can happen. Add another elective that interests you.
6. Do 5 specialties. If you live where it is cold you might want a drysuit at this point. SDI Solo with a TDI cave instructor might be fun, cavern, wreck diving, ice diving, drift diving, or anything that directly applies to your interests or where you will be diving most.
7. Last class: Rescue diver! Find the toughest instructor you can find who will make it as physically demanding as possible.
Experience:
There are two types of expert divers. The first is the diver who makes his or her home waters more or less the whole world. They may not have the ability, desire, or means to travel but they know every coral head, kelp frond, or blue gill in their backyard.
The second type of expert is the one who racks up dives in lakes, rivers, quarries, and the ocean in both temperate and tropical waters around the world. They can pretty much go anywhere and they feel at home and at ease everywhere they go. They may know everyone on 5 continents.
Once you find yourself in such a diving routine that it might even feel like a rut, but you don't know what else to do with yourself, and everyone (even the instructors) are the ones asking you questions about how deep the wreck is at the prop, how do you fix a nylon float, and where you are going to eat, you are almost a Master Scuba Diver.
When you look around after all of that and realize you are the one having the most fun, you nailed it! Give yourself a card. Make it fancy.
Certification Courses:
1. Watermanship: The gold standard would be passing a surf lifeguard course with a USLA-certified beach patrol, earning an EMT license, and working part-time or full-time for a couple of seasons as a surf lifeguard so rescues and assists become just another day at the office. The time and fitness standards might only be possible for younger divers who don't have family responsibilities. A silver medal would go to taking the American Red Cross Lifeguard Training course with the Waterfront add-on. Most rescues will find their way to the surface so having the swimming skills to make rescues is a must to be considered a Master Scuba Diver. An engineer friend of mine who was a PADI course director took my advice and went through a lifeguard class at the age of 50. He said I was right about the value. It changed the way he viewed safety in diving.
2. The next course would be a freediving course. Quality snorkeling and breath-hold diving education would create more confidence and teach the diver how to breathe better, relax, slow down, and become efficient in the water. The diver would also have the ability to dive deep without SCUBA to perform quick tasks such as recovering objects dropped over the side of a boat or make quick rescues without needing to gear up. Buy freediving gear! It will open up a whole unique world.
3. The third course would be a traditional open water course such NAUI, SSI, or PADI. This would put the diver on the same page as most entry-level divers in the world. Their materials are also easy to understand and learning is not that difficult. Don't buy gear. Just a mask with a better field of vision than a freediving mask and Jet style fins.
4. Time for nitrox! The best nitrox course will kill two birds with one stone. Take a GUE-F course and dial in your trim, buoyancy, and propulsion skills. Buy your gear and start breathing a better gas.
5. Now, you can pursue advanced open water. The most important part of advanced diving is navigation. You can practice in the woods with your dive compass before class. If you get good at the compass courses Eagle Scouts often install in state parks as projects, you'll be on your way. Learn to swim straight lines and to navigate while swimming at 15 feet (safety stop depth) while keeping your team together. Squares and triangles are built on straight lines. The goal is to be able to locate a vertical line rather than a large object. Quarries are excellent for this. Choose an AOW instructor who has a cave or DIR background so you'll learn to use lights at night like a cave diver. You'll need search & recovery to be a Master Scuba Diver. A public safety diving instructor is often very good at rigging heavy anchors and such because they can raise cars. Equipment repair and maintenance are also a must. You need to be able to fix your wetsuit or drysuit. Stay wet for now. Don't combine AOW with drysuit. Bad things can happen. Add another elective that interests you.
6. Do 5 specialties. If you live where it is cold you might want a drysuit at this point. SDI Solo with a TDI cave instructor might be fun, cavern, wreck diving, ice diving, drift diving, or anything that directly applies to your interests or where you will be diving most.
7. Last class: Rescue diver! Find the toughest instructor you can find who will make it as physically demanding as possible.
Experience:
There are two types of expert divers. The first is the diver who makes his or her home waters more or less the whole world. They may not have the ability, desire, or means to travel but they know every coral head, kelp frond, or blue gill in their backyard.
The second type of expert is the one who racks up dives in lakes, rivers, quarries, and the ocean in both temperate and tropical waters around the world. They can pretty much go anywhere and they feel at home and at ease everywhere they go. They may know everyone on 5 continents.
Once you find yourself in such a diving routine that it might even feel like a rut, but you don't know what else to do with yourself, and everyone (even the instructors) are the ones asking you questions about how deep the wreck is at the prop, how do you fix a nylon float, and where you are going to eat, you are almost a Master Scuba Diver.
When you look around after all of that and realize you are the one having the most fun, you nailed it! Give yourself a card. Make it fancy.
OP
Leatherboot69
Contributor
Because, as I said before, the courses teach skills but it’s using them outside the training environment, in real life, where you become proficient.
It’s like when I went through basic training with the military. At the end of training I’d reached minimum standards to graduate, but that just gave me the basic skills to go to my unit and on deployment to build real life experience. Anyone who turned up from training thinking they had learned everything would have a hard time.
At the end of wreck specialty, for example, I’d spent one shore session and two dives deploying a reel, in a lake with an instructor watching me. I know how to do it now, but it’ll be the pool dive and six actual wreck dives I do next month where I practice it to become competent. Same with dry suit - after two training dives I knew how it worked, but it was after a further four fun dives in a dry suit without an instructor, practicing, experimenting and thinking for myself that I got comfortable.
To make a further Land comparison, to become a Mountain Leader requires a total of ten days of formal training and assessment-but forty days in the mountains, because that’s where you apply the skills from training and build experience in a range of conditions.
That’s just how training works for me. My instructors for OW>AOW>RD were excellent too. One was a thirty year ‘000s of dives CD, and one was a recently retired Special Forces soldier who had great transferable experience, including extensive training experience.
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