2 women killed by sharks i Egypt

[Saltwater_Parrot]

You're telling me that shooting the Shiite with dive instructors about complex environmental issues at tea time is now the basis for coming to scientific conclusions? Yeah, the new Middlestern contribution to the world, science by rumor. Actually, in reality that's how decisions are made in my part of the world, based on rumor. Tea shops are the center of power and decision making for science.

I don't think anyone is speaking in absolutes or saying that these possibilities are facts, just that they are potential contributing factors. Just as you are saying they have not been proven, they also have not been disproven

Scientific studies always start with a hypothesis, and the hypotheses are essentially educated guesses. Many studies, especially in the ecology/conservation sphere, use local knowledge when forming those hypotheses, so it's not outlandish to say that "a is possible because b has been observed." It needs to start somewhere.

There's a lot of debate in this field about baiting, artificial feeding behaviors, and so on, so none of these ideas are hard facts.. just ideas that need further study.

Also, just because something has been going on for years does not discount anything. There are so many variations and other factors --
- Increase in shark populations could mean increased pressure on food supply, where the dumping was sufficient in the past to supplement, but no longer is
- The inverse could also be true -- perhaps dumping has slowed down due to better conditions on the ships, leading to an increased strain on the sharks feeding habits if they had become dependent upon these dumps
-Or, it could be completely unrelated and just chance -- or something entirely different like food supply strain induced via rising sea temperature/ocean acidity.

 

[BoltSnap]

Sharks are monsters, as hard as everyone wants to convince you otherwise, remember you are swimming with real life monsta.

Yep, just remember Jaws.

Are you from Wocestah?

 

[SubMarineBiologist]

Sharks are monsters, as hard as everyone wants to convince you otherwise, remember you are swimming with real life monsta.

No, sharks are incredibly important for marine ecosystem health.
Look at @JuanSharks on Instagram, and look up Cristina Zenato for brilliant and beautiful shark interactions.
Sharks are much less dangerous than humans who fin them in their 100s of millions and leave them to sink in agony for a lingering death.

 

[BoltSnap]

I don't think anyone is speaking in absolutes or saying that these possibilities are facts, just that they are potential contributing factors. Just as you are saying they have not been proven, they also have not been disproven

Scientific studies always start with a hypothesis, and the hypotheses are essentially educated guesses. Many studies, especially in the ecology/conservation sphere, use local knowledge when forming those hypotheses, so it's not outlandish to say that "a is possible because b has been observed." It needs to start somewhere.

There's a lot of debate in this field about baiting, artificial feeding behaviors, and so on, so none of these ideas are hard facts.. just ideas that need further study.

Also, just because something has been going on for years does not discount anything. There are so many variations and other factors --
- Increase in shark populations could mean increased pressure on food supply, where the dumping was sufficient in the past to supplement, but no longer is
- The inverse could also be true -- perhaps dumping has slowed down due to better conditions on the ships, leading to an increased strain on the sharks feeding habits if they had become dependent upon these dumps
-Or, it could be completely unrelated and just chance -- or something entirely different like food supply strain induced via rising sea temperature/ocean acidity.

What you are saying is that nobody knows no nothing and that tea parties in the Middleast aren't the proper forums for scientific decision making. You have no idea of the prevalence of storytelling and rumor spreading culture here in my part of the world. It is actually part of government services here. Rumor spreading to enforce propaganda goals of dictators.

 

[Saltwater_Parrot]

What you are saying is that nobody knows no nothing and that tea parties in the Middleast aren't the proper forums for scientific decision making.

I never, in the slightest way, hinted that "nobody knows no nothing." I said that science always starts with a hypothesis and that this is a debated field that requires more research. That does not in any way mean that there aren't plenty of things that we do know. Life does not exist in yes/no, black/white. Science is dynamic and always changing.

You have no idea of the prevalence of storytelling and rumor spreading culture here in my part of the world. It is actually part of government services here. Rumor spreading to enforce propaganda goals of dictators.

You don't need to depend on rumors to make objective observations:
- it is known that the dumping of carcasses occurs
- it is known that sharks are opportunistic predators, who feed on carcasses in the wild
- it is known that two shark attacks just occurred
- it is unknown whether there is a link between the two == your study

That is objective information that does not rely on rumors. I 100% believe that rumor spreading is used maliciously there, but that has no bearing on the actual science done.

If you can agree that it has not been proven, then I'm not sure how you can disagree with the inverse. You said yourself, there is no hard science on the topic yet, meaning no proof for either side of the argument.

All I'm saying, is that hypothesizing a link between dumping/feeding/baiting and attacks on humans is perfectly reasonable and is exactly how scientific studies are started. I am not saying that it is true or not.

 

[Searcaigh]

"Eid Al Fitr" was two months ago at the end of Ramadan. Sheep aren't slaughtered during Eid Al Fitr. You mean "Eid Al Adha" or "the day of sacrifice"

Correct, my mistake.

 

[Searcaigh]

BS, why would a ship staff kill sheep they are supposed to be delivering to the market while on routeroute before reaching market?

I know for a fact that sick animals are tossed overboard en route avoid an infection breakout in the live cargo. This has been going on for years and in the past there have been articles about it in the local press.

 

[NootFish]

I'm wondering how long beaches in the area are going to be closed for water-based activities because my current plan is to go diving right in that area in early August before my liveaboard... Should I change my hotel reservation to something further north/closer to Hurghada?

 

[scubaozy]

A probability of a shark attack is very low, so low that 2 attacks happening in consecutive days in same area is statistically significant. It is hard to explain it with randomness and rising tourist numbers, bad luck, over-fishing. An analytical mind would first evaluate existence of acute factors attracting the sharks to the area.
@NootFish locals cannot afford suspending water activities for too long, and normally scuba diving activities are resumed before others, so I would not worry yet.

 

[El Diablo]

It is weird that many are trying to demystify shark attacks like this is the first time it happens...

Sharks have been studied for centuries and by now, their behavioral pattern is quite predictable.
The 2 ladies attacked were swimmers, not divers to start with.

Besides the carcass dumping, chumping, shark feeding, etc that obviously has an impact in their behavior and ecosystem, the video that someone posted is next to a pier and I believe there are folks fishing there, with whatever that means in terms of smell, electrical impulses and visual stimulus for a shark.

In many occasions, attacks are due to the same shark that for some reason went AWOL. It is really sad that these 2 tourist went on holidays and ended up dead but we shouldn't be so worried as this is kind of an exception. I believe many more tourists are killed by rhinos and crocodiles every year than sharks.