Modularized Training vs all-at-once

[markmud]

Dude, I would dive with you pretty much anywhere. I like how you both look below the waves and getting ready. Yeah, i was relating anecdotes of my former students, but I still consider you two exceptional divers, even if you don't.

I did not take what you wrote as an insult. No, I know what you meant, and I meant what I wrote. You, my instructor of record (Rick Rowett), and many others, are poetry in a fluid medium. No way, I am not like that. I am not brown-nose'n ya, just say'n. Some are extremely good. I am a decent diver, I will admit to that.

I have a "Pete" story if anybody is interested. PM me. He does not remember the story, I am sure, but I was humbled.

That's why I suggested that YOU are your own ultimate certification. Once others see you prep and dive, they know what kind of diver you are. Who needs a cert? This is especially true in the high volume tourist diver locations that we often frequent.

Yeah, but I have had written agreements with dive-ops for specific sites and then there is always some problem. Thousands of dollars and hours and hours of travel, and we are on the same beat-up reef days on end.

Thanks Big Kahuna, Surges and Invasions saved me from that BS.

Dive and let dive! Join the revolution!!! For sure buddy!

m

 

[formernuke]

Perhaps the issue is that some shops and instructors are just about push through as quick as possible, PADI, SDI, SSI etc says that they must do this so that is all we do. Others take extra time to actually teach diving and how to dive.

@The Chairman in previous post you indicated that from the beginning even with OW students you teach more than one finning technique, staying off the bottom, bouyancy control etc. None of that was covered beyond brief mention in my OW or AOW class. The attitude was so you want to learn bouyancy will there is this other class it only cost this much etc.

 

[Storker]

Anyone can talk a great game, telling us how many times they've been on the Doria and until I, or anyone else, gets in the water with you, we just don't know.

Which is why l have no issues with an op wanting to do a shakedown dive with me to check that I'm not yet another muppet with a big mouth.

I have to admit, though, that if I'm treated like a resort OW cert muppet after the shakedown dive I might become a mite resentful and vote with my wallet next time...

 

[The Chairman]

I have a "Pete" story if anybody is interested. PM me. He does not remember the story, I am sure, but I was humbled.

No, no... let's hear this. Start a new thread if you need to.

in previous post you indicated that from the beginning even with OW students you teach more than one finning technique,

Actually, I usually only have to teach them the frog kick. Most anyone can flutter kick. If they can't we'll work through it, but I want frog kicking from the start.

The attitude was so you want to learn bouyancy will there is this other class it only cost this much etc.

Yeah, I'm trying to change that attitude. Trim and buoyancy are the foundation of control in Scuba. Control means safe

if I'm treated like a resort OW cert muppet after the shakedown dive I might become a mite resentful and vote with my wallet next time

I feel you. Voting with your fins is always an option.
fun.

 

[KenGordon]

Voting with your fins is always an option.

The trouble is, you might have travelled a long way, be booked into a particular hotel, have taken lots of holiday etc, then have a less than ideal time being constrained in your diving.

 

[Storker]

The trouble is, you might have travelled a long way, be booked into a particular hotel, have taken lots of holiday etc

That's when it's a good time to contemplate if this particular dive is worth dying for, or if it's time to call quits and call the dive. No matter the financial cost. Your choice.

Remember: Anyone can call a dive at any time, for any reason.

 

[KenGordon]

That's when it's a good time to contemplate if this particular dive is worth dying for, or if it's time to call quits and call the dive. No matter the financial cost.

Anyone can call a dive at any time, for any reason.

I am not going to die. I am very very likely to have a proper buddy and be quite capable of handling whatever circumstances they are likely to drop tourists into. I am just having less fun than I would jumping off a boat in the Channel.

 

[Storker]

As long as you've made a competent assessment of the risks and rewards, that's fine in my book. Problem is, I don't believe that everyone else is able to make as a competent assessment as you can. And that even those can often don't.

 

[markmud]

Perhaps the issue is that some shops and instructors are just about push through as quick as possible, PADI, SDI, SSI etc says that they must do this so that is all we do. Others take extra time to actually teach diving and how to dive.

I can agree with that. And then the sales pitch starts for AOW, Peak buoyancy, Deep, and etc.

I have to admit, though, that if I'm treated like a resort OW cert muppet after the shakedown dive I might become a mite resentful and vote with my wallet next time...

How would you feel if you got treated like that after you communicated with the owner of the dive-op about specific dive sites and a written agreement was made to visit 10 of 15 sites listed, only to be treated like an OW Muppet? This happened to me several times. Furthermore, you booked the airline, the hotel, and the rental car because of this agreement.

The trouble is, you might have travelled a long way, be booked into a particular hotel, have taken lots of holiday etc, then have a less than ideal time being constrained in your diving.

Exactly. I am very interested in threads like this because I think the diving industry is missing the boat. Start catering to experienced divers so that the industry keeps them diving.

Muppet diving is for Muppets.

Many of us have become better divers than that and want to see more. I am not inferring that Muppets should be ignored. I was a Muppet. Start marketing to experienced divers; start segregating your divers; we are a different segment of the market and not a niche.

That's when it's a good time to contemplate if this particular dive is worth dying for, or if it's time to call quits and call the dive. No matter the financial cost. Your choice.

I have reread Ken's post and I am not getting that tangent from his words. What am I missing?
m

 

[Esprise Me]

How big of a Yelp problem is it for dive operators to tell customers they're not good enough for the advanced dive sites and refuse to take them? I assume the blowback is nonzero, but hopefully it's doable in at least the most extreme cases?

I did a cavern dive in Mexico when I was fresh out of OW. The dive shop was going to have me do a couple other dives with them first, but weather thwarted that plan. So they told me they'd do a mini checkout dive in the open water area of Dos Ojos, and if I did OK I could come on the dive; if not they'd hook me up with a snorkel tour. I guess I did OK. Though in retrospect, I find it a little hard to believe I didn't suck, and I wonder how much worse I would've had to be to be refused.