Advice Needed on Newly Acquired Faber Steel Tanks with Unfamiliar Markings

[mdsnorkelson]

Hey everybody,

I recently purchased two used Faber steel scuba tanks, and I've run into something interesting with them. Both tanks appear to be identical in size, but the markings on the neck are unlike anything I'm used to here in North Carolina, USA. I suspect they might have UK markings, as they don't have the usual PSI or cubic foot notation that I'm used to. I'm reaching out to the community for help identifying their volume in cubic feet.

I've included photos of the neck inscription. One of the tanks has much clearer inscriptions, as the other looks like it may have been painted, and has a glossier finish. I've also taken a photo of one of one of the tanks next to my Worthington X7-100 and my Faber FX100 to give a sense of its size (the tank in question is the shortest in height).

Thanks to any help you can provide.

Cheers,
Snorkelson

(edit): I see that only 5 image attachments is allowed, so I will include photos of the more clearly inscribed tank, and the size comparison.

 

[lowwall]

12.2 liters volume x 232 bar = 2830 liters

2830 l / 28.3 (liters in a cubic foot) = 100 cubic feet

They are 100cf steel tanks with metric M25x2 threads. If you need to replace the valves at some point, make sure you get ones for those threads. You may have to order from Europe.

The bigger problem is that without the DOT markings, you can't get these commercially filled, transported or hydro tested in the US. Do you have access to a privately run compressor?

Note - it is technically legal for shops to fill the tank while it is still in hydro, but good luck getting one to actually do it.

 

[tursiops]

The stampings say 12.2l, 232 Bars, which means 100 cuft, working pressure 3365 psi.
The stampings also say the valve is metric, M25x2. You should not use a US valve on that tank. Here is what Dive Gear Express says:

Because we located in the United States , we do not sell SCUBA cylinder valves with the metric M25 inlet thread form. We only sell SCUBA valves for use with US DOT cylinders, which all have imperial neck thread forms and are required to incorporate an over pressure relief device not found on M25 valves.​

​

One important safety caution regarding thread compatibility: The 3/4 NPS (ISO 228) threads most commonly seen on SCUBA cylinders in the US and M25 (BS 3643) threads most commonly seen outside the US (particularly European Union) are very similar but not identical; with the use of excessive force it's possible to mate diving cylinders and valves with these two different forms. However, the mismatched threads eventually separate with dangerously explosive force, often causing injury.​

​

Added: there is an echo in here...​

 

[rhwestfall]

Did you get them from a shop? Private sale? I'd suggest trying to get your money back.....

You have purchased a significant headache....

 

[Still Kicking]

There is a DOT provision to have ISO 9809-1 tanks requalified but it is going to be tough to find anyone who will do it. Even then, getting them filled would be challenging. Try to get your money back.

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/documents/offer/SP10922.pdf/offerserver/SP10922

 

[rhwestfall]

2018 Born On Date, so unless there is a new hydro stamp on them, you are in possession of some probably costly wind chimes...

 

[Nbaldus]

Cylinders with ISO 9809-1 markings are usable in the US the DOT recognizes ISO 9809-1. These cylinders are UN cylinders which is what is required by the DOT. Under 49 CFR 178.71 carves out the requirements for these cylinders. They do not need to be requalified and be stamped with US/DOT. These cylinders can be filled and used to their full working pressure with no legal issues. The misconception by many SCUBA industry professional that if a tank is not stamped DOT that is is useless is completely wrong. This something that needs to be corrected in the industry.

49 CFR 178.71 (a)"General. Each UN pressure receptacle must meet the requirements of this section. UN pressure receptacles and service equipment constructed according to the standards applicable at the date of manufacture may continue in use subject to the continuing qualification and maintenance provisions of part 180 of this subchapter. Requirements for approval, qualification, maintenance, and testing are contained in § 178.70, and subpart C of part 180 of this subchapter."

In 49 CFR 178.71 (g) it identifies and defines the ISO 9809-1 standard as the requirement for seamless steel tanks.

(g)"Design and construction requirements for UN refillable seamless steel cylinders. In addition to the general requirements of this section, UN refillable seamless steel cylinders must conform to the following ISO standards, as applicable:

(1) ISO 9809-1:2019(E), Gas cylinders—Refillable seamless steel gas cylinders—Design, construction...."

Furthermore in 49 CFR 178.71 (h) it identifies and define the ISO 7866:2012(E) for requirements for UN refillable seamless aluminum alloy cylinders.

(h) "Design and construction requirements for UN refillable seamless aluminum alloy cylinders. In addition to the general requirements of this section, UN refillable seamless aluminum cylinders must conform to ISO 7866:2012(E) as modified by ISO 7866:2012/Cor.1:2014(E) (IBR, see § 171.7 of this subchapter)."

This means that any cylinder with the markings ISO 9809-1 Or ISO 7866.. may be filled, transported, and used in the US.

For the bonus UN cylinders only need to be hydroed every 10 years as defined by 49 CFR 180 (c)

(c) Requalification interval. Each UN pressure receptacle that becomes due for periodic requalification must be requalified at the interval specified in the following table before it is filled:

Table 1—Requalification Intervals of UN Pressure Receptacles

Interval (years)	UN pressure receptacles/hazardous materials
10	Pressure receptacles for all hazardous materials except as noted below (also for dissolved acetylene, see paragraph (d)(3) of this section):

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

PS: Please let me know if i should make a post just for this. I real think it should be a pinned topic because I feel so many people are ignorant of what the laws is for scuba cylinders

 

[NaCl H2O]

Is that Deng Moo?????

 

[lowwall]

Cylinders with ISO 9809-1 markings are usable in the US the DOT recognizes ISO 9809-1. These cylinders are UN cylinders which is what is required by the DOT. Under 49 CFR 178.71 carves out the requirements for these cylinders. They do not need to be requalified and be stamped with US/DOT. These cylinders can be filled and used to their full working pressure with no legal issues. The misconception by many SCUBA industry professional that if a tank is not stamped DOT that is is useless is completely wrong. This something that needs to be corrected in the industry.

49 CFR 178.71 (a)"General. Each UN pressure receptacle must meet the requirements of this section. UN pressure receptacles and service equipment constructed according to the standards applicable at the date of manufacture may continue in use subject to the continuing qualification and maintenance provisions of part 180 of this subchapter. Requirements for approval, qualification, maintenance, and testing are contained in § 178.70, and subpart C of part 180 of this subchapter."

In 49 CFR 178.71 (g) it identifies and defines the ISO 9809-1 standard as the requirement for seamless steel tanks.

(g)"Design and construction requirements for UN refillable seamless steel cylinders. In addition to the general requirements of this section, UN refillable seamless steel cylinders must conform to the following ISO standards, as applicable:

(1) ISO 9809-1:2019(E), Gas cylinders—Refillable seamless steel gas cylinders—Design, construction...."

Furthermore in 49 CFR 178.71 (h) it identifies and define the ISO 7866:2012(E) for requirements for UN refillable seamless aluminum alloy cylinders.

(h) "Design and construction requirements for UN refillable seamless aluminum alloy cylinders. In addition to the general requirements of this section, UN refillable seamless aluminum cylinders must conform to ISO 7866:2012(E) as modified by ISO 7866:2012/Cor.1:2014(E) (IBR, see § 171.7 of this subchapter)."

This means that any cylinder with the markings ISO 9809-1 Or ISO 7866.. may be filled, transported, and used in the US.

For the bonus UN cylinders only need to be hydroed every 10 years as defined by 49 CFR 180 (c)

(c) Requalification interval. Each UN pressure receptacle that becomes due for periodic requalification must be requalified at the interval specified in the following table before it is filled:

Table 1—Requalification Intervals of UN Pressure Receptacles

Interval (years)	UN pressure receptacles/hazardous materials
10	Pressure receptacles for all hazardous materials except as noted below (also for dissolved acetylene, see paragraph (d)(3) of this section):

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

PS: Please let me know if i should make a post just for this. I real think it should be a pinned topic because I feel so many people are ignorant of what the laws is for scuba cylinders

That's good news. The issue is still getting a shop to fill or hydro it when needed. I suspect it will depend on the specific wording of their liability insurance policy - if they can be bothered to look it up.