YOKE vs DIN

[El Diablo]

You have presented yourself as THE expert on DIN vs Yoke in this thread, pretty much rejected all other input, demeaned Americans, and have a very thin skin. OK, press on.

That's absolutely untrue and still doesn't justify your reaction. Regarding the 'thin skin' characterization, I believe it is quite the opposite. I simply don't accept insolence. You don't know me, we are not friends so treat me with respect, hidden behind an avatar or not. I will do the same.

Now to our topic:

Where did I stated I am the expert on DIN vs YOKE? I did started the thread and showed interest on following it up obviously.

Everything I posted were facts from different sources. Of course, I have my personal opinion and preferences but I've accepted the benefits that some folks see on the YOKE system as well. Everything is written and archived, read my posts again.

Some of my quotes:

"I agree with the argument that Compressors use A-Clamps for faster filling as well as the stress being reduced while filling vs a DIN fitting. Also if you are a kid, a woman or someone with smaller hands, removing an overtightened DIN stage can be challenging."

"DIN valves were actually invented by the US in the 50s for commercial diving. The Germans only improved upon the design. So you can all be proud."

"Never agreed with anyone saying that YOKE is garbage. It is sufficient for many folks although IMO the DIN advantages are far more important (safety, weight, size) than 15sec I need to remove the Donut or have to screw in an adapter if the Dive Center has outdated or insufficient gear."

"That is correct, the same way the YOKE O-rings suffer because they are abused on dive boats / resorts, when filling DIN tanks the O-ring also suffers. However, I've never experienced any failures as I previously said and mind that in EU you do use A-Clamps for filling as well, in combination with a Donut insert."

"You put it in a fantastic way and to be honest, browsing YouTube on the matter, I do see a positive change in the US also, more and more Americans are adopting the DIN standard as they see the clear benefits. As you said, YOKE predated DIN and that made it a 'standard' in the Americas, Asia & Pacific."

"I can see that... potentially the YOKE could protect the valve if dropped really hard."

"Thanks friend, makes sense
I've seen the donut getting stuck because of poor maintenance (W40 and heat helps). Not usual but I've seen it."

Where did I demeaned Americans??? I believe I did exactly the opposite, I disagreed with members when they implied that I assume that Americans are idiots (@lexvil) , stated that I love the US and not only I've visited lots of states several times but have friends there.

"I totally understand your position, I just didn't wanted to get involved in any political situation as I expressed previously. Î felt slightly offended by the word 'stupid' as I never insinuated anything like that.
There are cultural differences between all of us but at the end of the day we are all here because of our love for scuba diving. FYI, I've worked and travelled to the US for many years and I really appreciate your country so never once in my head I would characterize an American as 'stupid' - nor any citizen of any country for that matter as stupidity is independent from nationality and geographic borders. I've also worked with Asia & Pacific but unfortunately, during my business trips, couldn't find enough free time to dive there..."

Stating that the YOKE is the STD for the US is diminishing? Stating that DIN has benefits over the YOKE system is diminishing? I believe you need to get your facts straight. It is normal for people to defend their purchase decisions, I understand that but new technologies replace older ones eventually. People don't like change, that's all.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

And people wonder why I request for a block button on scubaboard....

 

[happy-diver]

Shhhhh he is the devil you know and will get bored soon enough off looking for another distraction

 

[BoltSnap]

I have read the entire thread here beginning to end, I find no disrespect or "demeaning" of Americans at all in any of the OP's postings. The ones that are complaining about "demeaning" of Americans ran out of any substantive arguments so they resort to accusations of cultural attacks. If anything, some of the posts of those that are complaining can certain be construed as cultural superiority attacks against the OP or anyone that has a different point of view.

I am really sorry for the OP, he has been attacked and accused of things he neither said or implied and certainly didn't think of them. The message that comes across here is that if somebody dares to talk about issues or topics that run contrary to what the powers that be of SB, you are going to get a tongue lashing to put you in your place. This is a very popular topic of discussion in private discussion groups on SB and in other venues about how things are going on SB.

 

[The Chairman]

a) You represent all Americans

Please cite where I posted that. In fact, I pointed out that not all Americans are the same. Why assign a concept to me that I have never expressed?

An American is the only source of information about scuba diving trends in the US

For the record, I'm Columbian as well as American and proud of both. I don't believe in American exceptionalism and never have. I'm a world citizen.

Who cares what size Allen wrench you need? 8mm is close to 5/16" and 7mm is close to 1/4". I've also encountered 3/8", which has no metric equivalent. Given that the outer thread is BPS (Britsh Pipe Straight), it would be my guess that they were intended to be imperial. Metric wrenches work simply because they are close enough.

 

[iain/hsm]

I had an interesting discussion with a newly certified diver in my gym and he asked me what reg type he should purchase because the majority of YouTube videos showcase YOKE first stages instead of DIN.

I suggested DIN as IMO, it is a better construction overall: it is smaller, lighter, will not snag on anything and much safer as the o-ring gets threaded inside the valve and it is not exposed to the elements as on a YOKE valve. Safety for me is the n.1 reason to buy a DIN, that's why you can find 300bar 1st stages.

In the American market it seems that YOKE is much more popular but I cannot find one simple reason...
Can you guys explain why you chose it? Is it because you learned to dive with it, was suggested by your buddies, dive store? Is it because you cannot find tanks with a donut insert?

You are spot on with your statement regarding DIN

But consider also a couple of additional engineering design considerations.
1. Watch carefully and notice the "flex"when pressurising a standard American Yoke design
the A clamp portion can be seen to move, to flex when working pressure is applied.

2. This adds stress over strain to the A clamp resulting in a design that requires the retaining 0-ring to extrude first prior to the clamp cracking when stress over strain results with fatigue. While a poorer design
may engineer in less movement stress but allow more strain and result in a premature crack release of pressure on failure.

3. Also note that the material used is commonly CZ122 as opposed to the ZCZ121 used in most recreational scuba regulator bodies to allow for the A clamp to be manufactured as a Hot Brass Stamping

4. By way of example the American manufactured Conshef XIV Supreme the A Clamp is stamped for 4000 psi However on testing it was found that it failed at a 10% over load of rated pressure
The main reason why the American design failed the Royal Navy Test procedure and was required to be re designed to meet the Manufacturing Inspection and Test Procedure for the Royal Navy.

5. The quality of the O-rings is also a major factor in failure, with most American supplied products being supplied under Recreational Sports Equipment and NOT Life Support Equipment by using compounds from China and some even manufactured in China with more carbon black (filler) in them than compound using old polymers and out of tolerance dimensions.

No different to the 40% Nitrox is safe ******** with an oil lubricated air compressor that no one will run 50% into and cave fills I guess

 

[iain/hsm]

Who cares what size Allen wrench you need? 8mm is close to 5/16" and 7mm is close to 1/4". I've also encountered 3/8", which has no metric equivalent. Given that the outer thread is BPS (Britsh Pipe Straight), it would be my guess that they were intended to be imperial. Metric wrenches work simply because they are close enough.

I'm guessing this "who cares" is an American Cave Country term while the rest of us in the World would would prefer if 1/4" was 6.35mm

As for BPS British Pipe Straight is this some kind of American woke inclusionalism or just Cave County speak for a wild ass guess.
While the rest of us know it as BSPP British Standard Pipe Parallel.
Close Enough?

 

[tursiops]

Who cares what size Allen wrench you need? 8mm is close to 5/16" and 7mm is close to 1/4". I've also encountered 3/8", which has no metric equivalent.

I've never seen a 7mm Allen wrench so can't check if it will fit a 1/4 inch, but I'm guessing not. The 1/4 wrench is already pretty tight in the hole. A 6mm will fit that 1/4 inch hole, but is a sloppy fit.. 5/16 fits fine in the 8mm hole, but feels sloppy....wouldn't want to use it if the insert is in tight. 3/8 is huge; never seen an insert with a hole that big. If you use the largest size wrench that will fit in the holes -- best practice -- then some of the holes are definitely metric, especially the 6mm and the 8mm, and at least the 1/4 inch hole is definitely imperial.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Who cares what size Allen wrench you need? 8mm is close to 5/16" and 7mm is close to 1/4". I've also encountered 3/8", which has no metric equivalent. Given that the outer thread is BPS (Britsh Pipe Straight), it would be my guess that they were intended to be imperial. Metric wrenches work simply because they are close enough.

You're going to care when you are on a dive boat without your impact wrench and the inserts are corroded to the valves.

 

[The Chairman]

You're going to care when you are on a dive boat without your impact wrench and the inserts are corroded to the valves.

I deal with that before I leave the dock.