Yoke Vs Din (wave of the future?)

[Midnight Star]

I have two HP 80's now, and as far as I know, the shops haven't had a problem filling them; though some possibly could. A few places fill the tanks slowly to prevent too much heat buildup ... it give me time to stand around and chat. The last shop to fill em' thought they were LP's, and filled them as such - they didn't check the stamp on the side of the tank

One of the primary reason i'm going HP, is the size/volume ratio as compared to an equal volume LP. My HP 80's are so much smaller (and lighter) than the standard AL80. This will give me less drag, and a more compact "carry". Plus, the larger diameter keeps the tank from sliding out of the band as easily; almost lost an 80 one time - that would not have been pretty! This year, i'll pick up to more HP's (either two 120's or 130's). That should have me "packin" enough for a good days worth, if not more, of diving.

In the end, I think alot comes down to personal preference. I'll also get the yoke adapter, just in case, and I already have the HP fill adapters I keep in my equipment bag, so no worries there.

 

[Jimmer]

i know this probably belongs in a tank thread, but this caught my eye. do many people use double lp 80's, i mean ive seen it done and heard navy divers are trained with this set-up but really what recreational diver would go through the bouyncy hassel of this rig, not to mention the hassel of double for 160 cuft of air, not to interigate Midnight Star, but just wondering if any one has insight, also this is just a comment on hp tanks the idea is great, but what about the filling problems, i use a huge tank currently, a lp steel 121 that i normally fill to nearly 3000psi, a slight over fill from the 2640psi rating, but hp tanks will rarely get a complete fill, just compressing air to those pressures causes the vessel, or tank, to heat up and youll have to let the tank cool and top it off, i mean this is a personal desicion, but still id rather carry a physically bigger tank than worry about having all day to fill it

My shop fills HP tanks all the time, my instructor and his wife have been diving them for 10 years. The trick is a slow fil, usually a good 10 - 15 minutes for a fill, with a 200 or 300 psi push over and they cool to 3500 on the money. It's really impressive watching my instructors wife filling tanks, she will nail any tank at any pressure just by feeling it to see how warm it is, then overfilling a few hundred PSI. I've never seen her miss.

 

[victor]

Captured o-ring is more reliable and yes most DIN setups are lower profile/more streamlined. (I can't remember the last time I used a yoke reg.) More divers are using DIN but I think yoke is going to be around for awhile. With AL80s still being the most popular tank alot would have to change.

Putting DIN valves on AL80's is no problems, so thats not an issue.
The biggest issue is getting the big teaching orginisations to push for it.

If PADI came out with a recomendation that DIN was better than Yoke then 5 years would see most major dive operations offering both with DIN being the standard and DIN with an adaptor for those old fashioned people with Yoke regs.

 

[MSilvia]

do many people use double lp 80's, i mean ive seen it done and heard navy divers are trained with this set-up but really what recreational diver would go through the bouyncy hassel of this rig, not to mention the hassel of double for 160 cuft of air

When I first started diving with doubles, I already had several AL80s around, so doubling up the tanks I already had made a lot of sense from a budget perspective. They were good enough to learn in, gave me the flexibility to safely dive doubles in a wetsuit, and I was happy using them for my DIR-F and Adv. Nitrox/Rec. Trimix classes. I got rid of them when I found a good deal on double HP100s, but wouldn't hesitate to reccomend them as a good transitional set of doubles for a recreational diver. 160 cubic feet of gas with redundancy is plenty for rec dives, and you don't get that redundancy with a single HP steel cylinder.

hp tanks will rarely get a complete fill, just compressing air to those pressures causes the vessel, or tank, to heat up and youll have to let the tank cool and top it off

My HP tanks almost always get a complete fill. Yeah, I have to let them cool and then get them topped off, but IMHO the extra gas is worth the extra fill time. It's definately not something I'd consider a problem. In any case, what does that have to do with valve choice?

 

[drbill]

Have dived with primary regs DIN for decades. Only my pony reg has yoke. I greatly prefer the DIN setup... have never had an o-ring blow (as I did with yoke regs in years past). Several areas of the world favor DIN as well.

One drawback in my experience is that the DIN o-ring can fall out when swapping tanks, etc. Of course my save-a-dive kit has plenty of o-rings of various sizes so that is no big deal.

 

[Wayward Son]

I disagree that the biggest issue is getting training orgs to push it. IMO the biggest issue is people like me, old divers with a bunch of gear.

I have 8 tanks & 3 regs, all yoke. All work just fine as they are, if I convert to DIN I would be doing so simply to be doing it. No other reason.

So let's see now, 8 new DIN valves at a min of $35 each, convert 3 regs to DIN at what, maybe $60 each? Assuming that my 1978 Mk5 can be so converted. If it can't be then I have to use a DIN to yoke converter at another $60 or so to use my reg on the new valves, which gains me what, exactly?

That works out to about $460 estimated, more likely higher. I don't have HP tanks, the highest ones so far are 3300 psi.

AL80's are the std tank for rentals, classes, etc, and are 3000 psi. Again, no functional need for DIN. If it's a bit costly for me to convert, consider an LDS with say 40 to 80 AL80 rental tanks & maybe 30 or so rental reg sets in inventory. The regs would be easiest for them as they replace them with new ones periodically, so the new ones could just be bought as DIN. But the tanks may be in service for decades, even at their cost those valves will add up.

Is DIN better? Sure, it has advantages & can handle higher service pressures. But it's not always worth the cost to change. A new diver would likely be better served by buying it from the start. An old diver with plenty of gear needs a good reason to spend the money that would otherwise pay for going diving.

 

[jeckyll]

WaywardSon:

I think that having to pay that much isn't worth it once you've got the gear. The other thing is "how much do you travel". For people that are doing mostly resort diving and don't own tanks, going to DIN makes little sense.

If all the diving is local and you own all your own tank, DIN's the way to go

... or at least buy valves that have the inserts, so you can convert your tanks to DIN any time.

Just my $0.02

 

[Wayward Son]

Yeah, those valves are nice. Future steel tanks I plan to buy will have them. But to replace existing valves, those with inserts cost considerable more than a std yoke valve does, which would raise my costs to convert even higher.

My point wasn't to bemoan my particular circumstance, but to make note of the fact that there's a LOT of hardware out there in the same situation mine is & that this is the, or at least a, major impediment to mass conversion to DIN here in the states.

 

[jeckyll]

Wayward: I wasn't trying to change your point, just expand it

I've got AL80's with the Thermo Pro valves (200 bar din or yoke) and I'm just glad I purchased those early on. My initial reg is yoke, but when I setup my pony I went DIN. Every few weeks I need to talk myself out of getting my other fist stage converted to DIN

Bjorn

 

[BKP]

Every few weeks I need to talk myself out of getting my other fist stage converted to DIN

Bjorn

Why don't you? I'm trying to find reasons *not* to convert (other then a proliferation of yoke usage at my 'local' sites (Keys / Bahamas / Carribean in general).

I'm told there's no problem with a 3442 psi on my Atomic B2 with a DIN (but they don't state the nominal and max rating with a yoke...

(sorry for the minor semi-hijack)

P.S. -- I've heard excellent things about the Thermo-Pro's.