DIR- Generic Why use GUE nitrox only

[boulderjohn]

So yes here I think this identifies where uncertainty comes up. Do the effects of ppO2 and ppN2 really just add up like that, to an easily explainable combined effect? A simple arithmetic, but what is the mechanism by which that actually works?

While you are looking into the additive effects of the two gases, add a third. Carbon dioxide has long been a contributor to narcosis. It seems the harder you work on a dive, the greater the narcotic effect.

Individual susceptibility is also a factor. Narcosis seems to affect different people in different ways. Some feel very loopy. I personally do not feel a thing, even when my actions show I am clearly affected. Why is that? It shows how little we still know.

 

[justinthedeeps]

While you are looking into the additive effects of the two gases, add a third. Carbon dioxide has long been a contributor to narcosis. It seems the harder you work on a dive, the greater the narcotic effect.

Individual susceptibility is also a factor. Narcosis seems to affect different people in different ways. Some feel very loopy. I personally do not feel a thing, even when my actions show I am clearly affected. Why is that? It shows how little we still know.

Yes more good reasons for taking it down to ≤20 ENDs and avoiding exertion.

I've seen people accuse dive operators of having "bad air," with no evidence. In fact I had a portable carbon monoxide meter with me and none of my own spot readings were above 0 ppm. I didn't have a carbon dioxide meter though. "Air" gets a bad rap. But I think this is almost entirely about the high ppN2, in most cases.

I did get headaches on one of the days myself, despite being conscious of exertion, etc. My own personal opinion is that it was the effect of too much nitrogen (there was no nitrox), combined with possible CO2 retention caused by stretching out runtimes to max NDL and 60+ minutes on nearly every dive on a single S80 of air. Would nitrox have fixed it? Maybe... or not.

The people blaming the gas also maxed out their NDLs for several dives in a row each day while swimming around like crazy with bad trim and buoyancy in currents, then had drinks each evening. Would super clean 21/35 have saved them? Probably not.

 

[mariosx]

I have no doubt that GUE certified divers have some valuable skills. My question is....... what are the GUE prescribed equipment rules for configuring where and how to manage and stow your speargun, fish stringer, cocking device and goodie bag when shooting Lingcod and gathering crab, lobsters and scallops?

This class is being unlocked after the GUE Fish Identifiication class. Often they pair you with a group attending GUE's Advance Mermaid class so not only you have some targets to practice, but they also have some motivation to move more like a fish.

To attempt to answer in a more serious note, assuming this is not some kind of trolling, underwater fishing is not part of the GUE curriculum and assuming no drastic changes on the main objectives of the organization, it will never be. If you recognise that GUE certified divers have some valuable skills, what's the one prohibiting them adapting their skills to accommodate for a specific activity? Great control in the water, great situational awareness, with great buddies is all you need for most.

When I saw a suggestion that Nitrox should be used for a 21ft. dive I couldn't help myself. Standard gases are not the answer for all recreational divers.

Anybody said that GUE or GUE standards is the answer for all recreational divers?

I clicked the link and read through all the standards and don't see anything at all about GUE specifications or standards for configuring where and how to manage and stow your speargun, fish stringer, cocking device and goodie bag when shooting Lingcod and gathering crab and scallops?

Seriously.... I'm curious.... Are carnivore GUE divers allowed to hunt and gather seafood.....or does having all of that additional equipment violate some GUE rule or standard regarding equipment?

GUE's fundamental goals are Education, Conservation, and Exploration. Not sure were you would categorize what you describe, which is an illegal activity (while scuba diving) in many countries in the world, that take conservation seriously.

 

[boulderjohn]

Anybody said that GUE or GUE standards is the answer for all recreational divers?

Not in this thread, ....

 

[mariosx]

Not in this thread, ....

I mean, I cannot challenge that nobody has said that behind the anonymity of the interwebz, but I cannot believe anybody seriously thinking it. At best, I can think of extreme cases believing that:

• GUE should be the only way any dive should be performed
• All recreational agencies should follow GUE standards

... but not what was the claim above, since (at least) recreational divers that are smokers exist. So... I am not sure who especially within GUE would just disagree with such simple factual reality.

 

[justinthedeeps]

GUE definitely has something amazing to offer for every diver. Not even kidding!

Nobody has the quality control standards and organizational cohesiveness that GUE has.

Whether you are prepared to accept this gift of perfection is up to you, your budget, your acceptance of how sh!t you were for doing anything that GUE didn't teach you themselves, and your willingness to breathe only Standard Gases!

 

[grf88]

In post #59 it was suggested that 32% would be safer for a 21ft. dive.

 

[crofrog]

In post #59 it was suggested that 32% would be safer for a 21ft. dive.

It is. Tell me how it’s less safe?

 

[grf88]

It is. Tell me how it’s less safe?

Tell me how it is safer as Oxygen is toxic at any level although our bodies have evolved to handle 21%. Nitrogen is not toxic but causes problem when excess is dissolved in the bloodstream which with an NDL in excess of 6 hours is really not an issue in this case.

 

[boulderjohn]

To summarize the last argument for people who have not memorized the thread....
1. The issue raised is the argument that EANx32 should be used for all NDL diving.
2. It was pointed out that in Colorado, almost all the local diving is within a range of 21-35 feet maximum depth, with much of the diving having a 21 foot maximum.
3. Many local shops do not even offer nitrox as an option, and some that do will charge $35 for a tank.
4. Because of that, many people do not feel using 32% nitrox for a 21 foot dive is the best option.