Why not BP/W for Beginner?

[rstofer]

There's a simple solution to that -- don't inflate the wing more than you need to, to stay on the surface.

Forget the "pro-fit" and get the hog harness...easier, much more simple, and saves you $54.

I like the jacket BC because it floats me high in the water. The BP/W, when properly inflated, doesn't float me anywhere near as high. In my view, floating high in the water may be more comfortable for student divers. Particularly young student divers. And that's what the OP asked about.

Sure, I have a BP/W and I like it a lot. I must, I bought two and am planning for two more in the near future. But I want the ProFit harness. It has, among other things, a quick-release buckle on each shoulder strap. I know it isn't DIR but I'm too old to care. Old people are cranky. We want it our way or we won't buy it at all.

I tried re-rigging the plate with a DIR harness and I even played with putting a captive QR buckle in one strap. I didn't like it so I reinstalled the ProFit harness.

I never said a new student should BUY a jacket BC - I only grabbed a price to show that BCs are NOT more expensive the BP/Ws. In fact, I can find jacket BCs that are much less than any BP/Ws. That's not the point.

Most shops have rental gear for the checkout dives. I would suggest that, for a young student diver, a rental jacket is perfect for these dives. There is plenty of time to buy stuff later. At that point, buying a BP/W is probably the way to go.

Considering the age of the student, the types of school exercises, the relative unimportance of streamlining (at this point in the educational process) and the comfort of the diver makes the rental jacket the way to go for the 4 checkout dives. Then buy the BP/W after the certificate is in hand. Kind of a graduation present.

Richard

 

[Nemrod]

Well, devil's advocate, most plates are really more suited to doubles than singles, most divers use singles. The big, flat, heavy doubles plates don't pack well and are, well, heavy. This makes transporting them diffucult and most dive retail stores think in terms of the vacation diver who does the pretty fish trips twice a year and not the gung ho bonzo type that will dive in a mudhole full of gators in sub zero temps.

Second, many if not most misinformed divers including all PadI instructors were told somewhere along the line and therefore think of the BC as a safety jacket, a life jacket and that without it you will die. Of course most of them would die because they cannot swim. However, no BC is USCG rated as a life preserver so their confidence in that is probably misplaced and as well confused as to the proper funtion of the BC "device" as they like to call it. The face down tendency of an overinflated wing simply freaks them out.

N

 

[String]

Not everyone likes wings, not everyone likes BCs.

I use a wing and HATE using BCs. I have many buddys that have tried wings but much prefer their BCs. Both do the same job at the end of the day, neither choice is "wrong".

As far as teaching goes the straps and clips on a BC are far quicker and easier to get a proper fit for a student than a one piece harness so a high throughput business or rents is far better off with a BC then giving out wings and hog harnesses.

 

[String]

Not everyone likes wings, not everyone likes BCs.

I use a wing and HATE using BCs. I have many buddys that have tried wings but much prefer their BCs. Both do the same job at the end of the day, neither choice is "wrong".

As far as teaching goes the straps and clips on a BC are far quicker and easier to get a proper fit for a student than a one piece harness so a high throughput business or rents is far better off with a BC then giving out wings and hog harnesses.

many if not most misinformed divers including all PadI instructors were told somewhere along the line and therefore think of the BC as a safety jacket, a life jacket and that without it you will die.

Where on earth do you get that from? I cant think of a single agency that says a BC is a life jacket and will float you head up. In fact i cant think of a single agency that doesn't state a BC is NOT a life jacket.

 

[Nemrod]

Where on earth do you get that from? I cant think of a single agency that says a BC is a life jacket and will float you head up. In fact i cant think of a single agency that doesn't state a BC is NOT a life jacket.

I didn't say they state it in some official handbook, I said they (instructors/divers/LDS sales people at large) think it and as a result it influences their decision process. You only have to look at the design of some of the stuff to see that the confused "thinking" has led to equally confused designs.

Oh, I wasn't put on earth to agree with everybody or even anybody, I just observe and comment upon what I see. What I see are products with confused missions. Example, all of the padding designed to make the poodle jackets "feel" good in the store in a walking and standing position. Not only are they not a life jacket, people, duh, they are not a wilderness hiking back pack either.

N

 

[Standingbear56]

Second, many if not most misinformed divers including all PadI instructors were told somewhere along the line and therefore think of the BC as a safety jacket, a life jacket and that without it you will die. Of course most of them would die because they cannot swim. However, no BC is USCG rated as a life preserver so their confidence in that is probably misplaced and as well confused as to the proper funtion of the BC "device" as they like to call it. The face down tendency of an overinflated wing simply freaks them out.

N[/QUOTE]

HUH??? I don't know where you ever heard this (in BOLD)but it's totally untrue. PADI teaches that the BCD is NOT a safety or life jacket. PADI teaches that it is for buoyancy control and DOES NOT replace a USCG certified life jacket. There are enough idiotic rumors going around without incorrect information to add more.

As far as the not being able to swim, again your opinion doesn't make it a fact.

 

[String]

As far as the not being able to swim, again your opinion doesn't make it a fact.

Its also just completely untrue. For a start you cant qualify to dive anywhere in europe (under any agency) without completing a swim test.

 

[spoolin01]

HUH??? I don't know where you ever heard this (in BOLD)but it's totally untrue. PADI teaches that the BCD is NOT a safety or life jacket. PADI teaches that it is for buoyancy control and DOES NOT replace a USCG certified life jacket.

Well, I recall in my mid-90's PADI OW class that a lot was made of the expectation that the BC should float you face-up in the event you passed out on the way to the surface.

 

[don Francisco]

Can a newbie use a BP/W setup? Why the hull not?

I'm always facinated by the intensity of the bickering about BP/W vs back-inflate BC vs jacket BC.

Partisans on each side of the issue exaggerate the benefits of whichever they prefer, and likewise distort the drawbacks of the ones they don't.

Two of the areas of greatest debate are the effects on trim while diving and on the surface.

While diving, especially in tropical diving, neither device will ever be full, so the air bubble will always go to the top. Even on a jacket BC the air bubble will be at the top and not in the section wrapping around the hips. If you're horizontal & face down the air will be along your back with any of the designs.

On the surface, the torque supposedly created by back inflate designs is not enough to cause the face in the water problems folks get so worked up over. If it were, given the number of back-inflate users out there, we'd be reading about lots of drownings. Obviously this isn't the serious problem folks make it out to be.

I don't mean to minimize the differences and there are lots of valid reasons for choosing any of the various systems, (and they'll vary with different dive situations) including, cost, modularity, shape and location of the air cell, overall weight and convenience among others.

In summary, pick whichever type you prefer, consistant with the type of diving you do, and don't sweat that others might have different needs or preferences.

 

[Standingbear56]

Its also just completely untrue. For a start you cant qualify to dive anywhere in europe (under any agency) without completing a swim test.

Have relatives in Europe, never had a problem. I repeat my statement.