Why not BP/W for Beginner?

[Randy43068]

the only thing i'd say is don't trim the harness or you'll have to get a new one whenever he grows. just fold the end over & tuck with some inner tube.

it's a great idea to get him one.

Cut that sucker to size... ten bucks to replace webbing.. maybe fifteen depending on where one buys the webbing.

It's better than effing around with pieces of webbing flopping around.

 

[Fishpie]

5'3" and growing....no need to cross the webbing behind the shoulder, get a regular size plate.
10lbs of weight with a regular jacket and steel tank.....go for the SS plate.
30 pounds of lift will be more than enough.

Get yourself one as well!

 

[rstofer]

I like the idea of ditchable weight. There is a limit to how much weight should be permanent and carrying only 13# or so, I would want to make most of it ditchable. The aluminum plate helps in this regard.

The DSS BP/W doesn't require an STA. This means the tank is closer to the diver's back and helps reduce the roll effect.

The DSS Medium backplate covers 5'3" to 6'0" which will leave a lot of room to grow. No doubt you will have to move up to the large backplate but it should be a while. The Hybrid Kydex/Stainless Steel backplat is only 1# negative.

A 30# wing should be far more than adequate. Over in the Equipment ->BC's and Weight Systems forum there is a buoyancy spreadsheet. It is worth the time to plug in some numbers re: wetsuit buoyancy, backplate weight and tank buoyancy. You will get the amount of lead and the amount of lift required.

Wings are expensive. I would probably opt for the 30# even if a 20# would work.

Richard

 

[cool_hardware52]

I like the idea of ditchable weight. There is a limit to how much weight should be permanent and carrying only 13# or so, I would want to make most of it ditchable. The aluminum plate helps in this regard.

The DSS BP/W doesn't require an STA. This means the tank is closer to the diver's back and helps reduce the roll effect.

The DSS Medium backplate covers 5'3" to 6'0" which will leave a lot of room to grow. No doubt you will have to move up to the large backplate but it should be a while. The Hybrid Kydex/Stainless Steel backplat is only 1# negative.

A 30# wing should be far more than adequate. Over in the Equipment ->BC's and Weight Systems forum there is a buoyancy spreadsheet. It is worth the time to plug in some numbers re: wetsuit buoyancy, backplate weight and tank buoyancy. You will get the amount of lead and the amount of lift required.

Wings are expensive. I would probably opt for the 30# even if a 20# would work.

Richard

Good quality BC's are not cheap, but neither is diving in general.

If the new young diver keeps diving enough and long enough to out grow a "junior" sized BC, the few dollars saved in buying an oversized BC will have been dwarfed by all the other associated costs.

BP&W's maintain reasonable resale value. If the young diver outgrows a small plate and 20 lbs wing, sell it, and buy what fits.

It is poor economy to "saddle" the new diver with gear that does not fit. Whatever type of BC is selected it should fit.

The new young diver is far more likely to remain an active diver if their early experiences are good.

Tobin

 

[Redhawk]

The option can be viewed here FROG DIVE GEARthe BC for my son would be the Indigo & I will look at the Midnight. About $350 ea from my LDS (they also stock various other brands of equipment so no forced purchase) complete with wing, backplate & harness. Anybody got a couple of reg sets they want to donate to youth development!

 

[rstofer]

That a very attractive price. Too bad they haven't penetrated the US market yet. OTOH, I see they have a presence in Singapore, a place I really enjoyed living.

Sometimes you can get pretty decent regulators from eBay. I have about bought up the world's market in Oceanic Omega II's because I like them. But the US Divers Conshelf seems to be plentiful and it was used in rental fleets for years. Parts are readily available. Check with your LDS about which regulators they can repair easily.

Other times you can spend more on eBay than the thing sells for retail! I don't see very many 'deals' on Oceanic's best regulators.

Sorry I can't help with the donations. I have to support 4 divers on my pathetic retirement income.

Richard

 

[String]

The frog gear is excellent. Pretty much Halcyon clones but at 1/3 of the price. My singles wing has done about 400 dives and still looks like new, my twins wing is in equally as good condition.

 

[bfw]

Follow the money......

Most dive shops conducting entry level training tend to be philosophically at odds with those advocating BP/W's, because the majority of BP/W users and the agencies with which they affiliate also advocate a paradigm of dive training and entry requirements that are incompatible with the dominant dive shop business model. Without getting into who is right, BP/W enthusiasts tend to support a philosophy called DIR which emphasizes rigorous training that requires a large commitment of time, effort, and personal fitness. It's a philosophy that would probably exclude 60% or more of currently certified divers from the sport. The dive shops, of economic necessity, tend to lean the other way, because otherwise, they'd lose 60% of their business.

In addition to that, jacket BCD's cost more, don't last as long, and with their greater complexity, are more likely to require service. They are also more likely to be replaced before they've expended their useful life in pursuit of the latest "bold new graphics" or new gimmicks. There's not much a manufacturer can do to make a BP/W "new and improved." Plus, most BP/W manufacturers sell direct on the internet, effectively reducing the markup a dive shop can get on them.

 

[String]

Without getting into who is right, BP/W enthusiasts tend to support a philosophy called DIR which emphasizes rigorous training that requires a large commitment of time, effort, and personal fitness.

I can think of a very large majority of wing users who are not GUE/DIR, have no wish to be and will never be. Just because one agency has decided they must be used doesnt mean users follow that philosophy. I use a wing and plate, am in no way GUE and violently disagree with some of their ideas for example. Wings were around long before GUE and will be around longer as well.

In addition to that, jacket BCD's cost more, don't last as long, and with their greater complexity, are more likely to require service.

Cost is roughly the same here by the time you've gone for harness, the triglides, backplate, wing, STA and so on.

 

[bfw]

I can think of a very large majority of wing users who are not GUE/DIR, have no wish to be and will never be.

No, you can think of an anecdotal majority among your personal acquaintances.

Just because one agency has decided they must be used doesnt mean users follow that philosophy.

No, but it accounts for most of the recent growth in their sales, use, and most important, advocacy. I also know plenty of BP/W users, none of whom has ever gone near a GUE course, and only a few of whom have even dipped their toes in DIR-lite, but they wouldn't ever try to persuade anyone to use a BP/W if that person even slightly leaned toward a jacket. No, if a new diver with no experience walks into a dive shop insistently asking for a BP/W, he's probably had his ear bent by someone at least DIR enough to apply the s-word to the majority of the shop's target market.

I use a wing and plate, am in no way GUE and violently disagree with some of their ideas for example.

It's probable that their tenets with which you disagree are not among the ones that conflict with the dominant industry business model. I wasn't speaking of GUE, or Irvine's cult religion, but rather the broader philosophical movement.

Cost is roughly the same here by the time you've gone for harness, the triglides, backplate, wing, STA and so on.

Then you need to become a better shopper. I don't know anyone who spent more than half what a decent jacket costs. You also won't find any BP/W makers playing the Aqualung "no online sales" game.

It's just not a good setup for the LDS business model - exactly how do you justify a claim that it's dangerous to buy a piece of equipment on craigslist when that piece of equipment consists of a quarter inch thick hunk of stainless steel with a few machined holes in it?