Why do you have to attend Nitrox classes in order to use Nitrox?

[Thalassamania]

All the things that are being discussed, SAC, END, MOD, O2 Tox, Adiabatics, etc. are just great examples to be used to get folks comfortable working with the gas law(s).

It's not like your adding a whole godwalloping bolus of material, unless you're not teaching quantitative use of the gas law(s) to begin with in which case I feel your doing a grossly inadequate job.

 

[DallasNewbie]

Why is a dive shop different? One reason is that the agencies and the equipment manufacturers require that you offer training, breathing gas and equipment in order to call yourself a dive shop. Where do you get your insurance? Usually through an insurance carrier that the agency has cut a deal with and that insurance company requires you to follow the standards of the agency. But...what if I wasn't a dive shop? What if I sold gas like the industrial gas supplier and baught my insurance from his insurance company? What if I sold dive equipment but didn't bother being associated with any certification agency? Maybe I even decide not to offer training at all? Now, I don't need underwater liability and I can insure my business and retail facility through any insurance carrier who might insure any other retail business. Dive gear is just stuff. It can be and is sold just like "stuff" by lots of businesses. Gas is just gas and can be sold and marketed as gas.

The difference is that the LDS is selling you the gas to breath. They are well aware of the dangers of selling gas to an unknowledgeable person, probably even more aware than the unknowledgeable person is. I suspect that most industrial gas suppliers would be very uncomfortable if you walked in off the street and asked them to blend you X%/Y%/Z%, and told them you were going to breath it at 200FSW. Some might not bat an eye, but I suspect that those who don't are either not very smart, or assume that you know more about it than they do. That alone may let them escape a finding of negligence, but the guy behind the counter at the LDS can't make the same claim.

There's no need to tie yourself to an agency, their rules or their insurance company, if you don't want to. That's espacially true if you don't need underwater liability insurance.

Any company that sells you commercial liability coverage is going to want to know what business you are in. If they think you are doing business in a manner likely to expose them to large payouts, they will make suggestions for changes. I'm guessing that in either case -- the LDS not checking cards, and the industrial gas supplier selling "exotic" breathing gases -- the insurer would be uncomfortable. Regardless of their affiliation with an agency, knowing that you check C-Cards will be attractive to your insurance company because it gives them someone else to join as a potential defendant.

Just my guess. I could be completely wrong.

 

[Bob Vincent]

Nitrox is dived the same as air. Simply breath in, breath out.

However, there are limitations caused by the higher percentage of O2 and the increased chance for oxygen toxicity. It is extremely important that anyone breathing a mix richer in O2 that air learn about such risks, the limits we follow in order to minimize the risk and how to calculate your maximum operating depth (MOD) for the given mix and how to calculate your oxygen exposure over multiple dives. All of this is covered in the course. The reason all of the agencies have done away with the required dives is that actually diving it is idential to air.

There are also important equipment considers if you are having your own tanks filled with nitrox.

By showing your nitrox card, the shop knows you have been advised of the risks and taught how to minimize them. They can be fairly sure that you won't do something stupid like take an EAN36 tank down to 130 feet. I'm sure it's also important for them from a legal/insurance perspective as it alleviates the liability and places it on your shoulders as a trained user of nitrox.[/quote

<<<<< WHAT HE SAID!

 

[Mauifish]

I can't believe this string has ran this long, of course the reason for being educated and certified is the purpose, and the reason of that is to not DIE or become permenatly damaged. What if I start a thread something like this " why should anyone waste their time and money on hang gliding lesson's when anyone can go out and buy a hang glider and just jump off a cliff ?"

 

[drbill]

I like to refer to Nitrox as "death gas." For me, it could easily become that since my diving is usually not based on a dive "plan," but on whatever Mother Nature places in front of my camera. I may begin a dive thinking I'll head down to 70 ft, but end up descending to 150 ft to follow a torpedo ray or some other interesting subject. Air (or hypoxic nitrox) gives me the freedom to do that (within my hard limits depth wise).

For a diver not well versed in the MOD factor, the training may be very critical to putting the diver into the proper mindset to dive Nitrox. I know one dive friend who had recently been certified on Nitrox and descended with buddies diving on air to a depth well below her MOD. Although Nitrox certified, she was thinking air rather than the gas she was breathing. Fortunately her buddy (and instructor) realized her tank was Nitrox and brought her back above her MOD safely.

 

[lamont]

I can't believe this string has ran this long, of course the reason for being educated and certified is the purpose, and the reason of that is to not DIE or become permenatly damaged. What if I start a thread something like this " why should anyone waste their time and money on hang gliding lesson's when anyone can go out and buy a hang glider and just jump off a cliff ?"

somethings you really need to have one-on-one training. its very difficult to learn to dive safely from zero without getting any training. technical diving is very difficult to learn correctly without having hands-on instruction. nitrox really isn't.

 

[Mauifish]

somethings you really need to have one-on-one training. its very difficult to learn to dive safely from zero without getting any training. technical diving is very difficult to learn correctly without having hands-on instruction. nitrox really isn't.

So what you are saying here is that nitrox certification should not be required to dive with any EAN above 21%??

 

[fisherdvm]

Too much training is never a bad thing. However, upon reviewing my nephew's scuba skills, his recent nitrox class seems to have washed away most of his memory of the risks of diving. He seems to think nitrogen narcosis, DCS, and oxygen toxicity is more of a risk to divers than barotrauma.

As a beginning diver who is supposed to stay well within the decompression limit .... the chance of his getting any of the above is almost nil... While the chance of his blowing out his ear drum or having rapid ascent is likely much higher due to poor buoyancy skill.

I am beginning to think that too much information might be a bad thing to some people.

 

[lamont]

So what you are saying here is that nitrox certification should not be required to dive with any EAN above 21%??

i'm not making a policy statement. i'm making a statement of the level of skills and knowlege necessary to dive nitrox, period.

I dove nitrox before I got certified and didn't DIE. And I didn't learn anything in the certification course which has prevented my subsequent DEATH if I didn't have the course. Weither or not the scuba industry needs the course, or divers should be required to have the course is a policy question.

As a policy statement, I think it should be rolled into BOW and divers should be trained to analyze each and every tank they dive right from the start.

 

[daniel f aleman]

What lamont said. And, as nitrox use (<50) becomes more mainstream, it's instruction will be blended into BOW courses.