Why do we hate the Air2?

[nolatom]

Wow, 150 posts in a day!

I hate 'em 'cause everybody else hates 'em and I don't want to be left out..;-)

Plus, if I ever have my primary knocked or pulled out (or if I jump in without it in my mouth, I actually did that once), my first reaction is to recover the primary, not the alternate. So with an octo, one arm sweep doubles my odds of coming up with a working reg.

Wow, now *270* posts.

Okay, since not everybody hates 'em, then I don't hate 'em anymore either. i was just trying to fit in ;-)

But I'm used to an octo, on a "medium-short" hose, with a primary on a "kinda short" hose. I call it my "this is what I bought out of the gate, it's cheap and cheerful and I'm used to it" rig, or "DIC" (Doing it Cheap) for short. It's worked pretty well, though the thought of a Hoagie rig does make me kinda hungry.

Once I hadta give a reg to a low-air buddy, I held out the octo and---he took it and breathed from it! I understand from the previous 26 pages that this either hardly ever happens, or it happens all the time. Also I've never dived with anyone DIR, which is just as well for them.

You need someone like me, with no real convictions at all, to help close out this thread in a quiet and gentle way. Happy to be of help, I hope....

 

[soltari675]

1. How exactly are you going to use the bottom dump valve whilst sharing air on a short hose?

2. How do you perform your air-share, with an emphasis on maintain contact/control of your OOA receiver, whilst maintaining buoyancy between the LPI (input) and shoulder-dump (output)? What hand does what? How much juggling is involved? What capacity remains to deal with other taskings (clearing mask, holding ascent line/reel/dsmb, assisting buddy with their buoyancy, if reqd)?

I'm not being negative... it just seems like a very convoluted and complex set of procedures would need to be used... which might cause a task-overload for the diver?

I use my left hand and hold on to the buddy's right BC strap. I can see my computer on my wrist still to monitor depth and ascent speed. My right hand is free to use my right shoulder air dump, clear my mask, and reach my buddy's air dump if needed. I'll admit, I've only had to do it once, however it was fairly easy to do. I felt in control and could do everything I needed to get to the surface safely. If I really need to hang on to my buddy with my right hand for whatever reason, I can reach on my shoulder and pull the air2 hose on my left shoulder, releasing the air up on my shoulder instead of in my face. I will concede that I need a longer hose on my primary, but for me personally that is still better than an additional hose and second stage. Again, just personal preference and what works for me.

I suppose mentioning the bottom dump wasn't helpful. I was just emphasizing there are several ways to vent air, not just where the air 2 is. Not arguing, just explaining how I personally use my air2 and handle emergencies.

 

[boulderjohn]

Once I hadta give a reg to a low-air buddy, I held out the octo and---he took it and breathed from it! I understand from the previous 26 pages that this either hardly ever happens, or it happens all the time. Also I've never dived with anyone DIR, which is just as well for them.

The only people I have met personally who have talked about air donations they have been near or have participated in have gone exactly as is taught in a conventional OW class. The diver either took the alternate or was given the alternate, after which the diver was perfectly calm and they executed a safe ascent. It will work that way the vast majority of times.

On the other hand, Diver0001 described a situation in which the alternate had come loose and was not accessible to the OOA diver. It was a similar story that made me change my configuration. The purpose was not to conform to someone's unnecessary ideal. It was to add one more level of insurance to the process, a change that only cost me the price of the new long hose and a new black face plate for my once yellow alternate.

 

[scubadada]

What an interesting thread to have read in its entirety. I generally read only the geographic posts as the diving and equipment related posts occasionally leave me angy and/or frustated. The poster population of SB does not accurately reflect the diving population in general. SB would dictate that all dive BP & wings, appropriately hosed primary and secondary regulators, paddle fins, non-air integrated computer, ...... I judge both myself and others by diving skill and performance. There are many ways to accomplish the same goals. I dive an Air-2 and practice breathing it and deploying my primary. I am confident that my skills would compare favorably within my sphere of competance, recreational diving.

Good diving, Craig

Why is this basic concept in the "advanced scuba" discussions?

 

[danvolker]

What an interesting thread to have read in its entirety. I generally read only the geographic posts as the diving and equipment related posts occasionally leave me angy and/or frustated. The poster population of SB does not accurately reflect the diving population in general. SB would dictate that all dive BP & wings, appropriately hosed primary and secondary regulators, paddle fins, non-air integrated computer, ...... I judge both myself and others by diving skill and performance. There are many ways to accomplish the same goals. I dive an Air-2 and practice breathing it and deploying my primary. I am confident that my skills would compare favorably within my sphere of competance, recreational diving.

Good diving, Craig

Craig,
You know, as much as this thread turned kind of nasty at one point, I would like to emphasize that none of the DIR divers that post regularly here, ever said that diving an AIR II would kill you, or that it was a "dangerous" threat that would imperil you or your buddy.....,

The OP asked for opinions on the AIR II.
So either, those of us with the DIR mindset and training, have to decide it is wrong to write our real opinons--which we believe could help people....or, we post and have to worry about offending huge numbers of good divers that like Air II's--because many will equate our concerns about the Air II with personal attacks on them personally, which was certainly not the case.

If you like the air ii, and it has worked for you, fine. I should not have to lie about my experiences with it, or attempt to hide my feelings about it for new, unskilled divers.

Please enjoy diving your air II.

 

[Splitlip]

FWIW, a young buddy of mine with only a year or two of experience took an out of air "advanced, rescue, blah blah blah"diver up from ~90 ft with an Air II, standard length primary and a Scubapro Classic BC. The kid was like 18 at the time. The rescued diver was OUT OF GAS.

 

[fnfalman]

Since you brought up the Atomic SS1, will the hose/connection for the AIR II fit the SS1? I have an Atomic T2X reg and have thought about switching to the SS1 from my AIR II for my octo.

Which hose/connection? You talk about the quick disconnect from the LP hose to the inline octo? If that's what you meant, then yes, they both are the same size. Besides, when you buy the SS1, it comes with the LP hose anyway...I think. I have LP hoses every stinking where and don't remember which came with which any more.

The SS1 breaths a lot better, has the cool threaded connection that is the same size as a typical garden hose so that you can flush your BC out in a very rapid and convenient manners, and it comes with several different adapters for the various corrugated hoses.

 

[scubadada]

Craig,
You know, as much as this thread turned kind of nasty at one point, I would like to emphasize that none of the DIR divers that post regularly here, ever said that diving an AIR II would kill you, or that it was a "dangerous" threat that would imperil you or your buddy.....,

The OP asked for opinions on the AIR II.
So either, those of us with the DIR mindset and training, have to decide it is wrong to write our real opinons--which we believe could help people....or, we post and have to worry about offending huge numbers of good divers that like Air II's--because many will equate our concerns about the Air II with personal attacks on them personally, which was certainly not the case.

If you like the air ii, and it has worked for you, fine. I should not have to lie about my experiences with it, or attempt to hide my feelings about it for new, unskilled divers.

Please enjoy diving your air II.

Thanks Dan, I appreciate your comments.


Best, Craig

 

[Lead_carrier]

With reference specifically to utilising the right-shoulder dump valve... how do you find reaching across the torso, between you and the OOA diver, to access that?

Agreed, buddy should be securing themselves to you, but in my experience they sometimes have a little 'passive panic' and aren't very proactive. Consequently, I like to ensure that I can maintain full control, if necessary.

If I have to use the right shoulder dump then I just reach over and get it, but to be totally clear, I don't always have a right shoulder dump. I sometimes have a bp/w. Yes, there I said it. I dive a bp/w with and AirII and sometimes an octo as well. As far as "passive panic" from my experiences, once a diver get air they usually calm way down. I'm sure there are others that have very dissimilar experiences. It is exteremly rare that I ever get a buddy that I don't know, so if I do, we discuss air sharing during the dive planning phase. If they are too good to go through planning a dive with me then I'm not qualified to dive with them and I'll let them know. One statement that usually gets their attention when we do discuss air sharing tho. I will be happy to share all the air I have at a controlled ascent rate. If you want to go faster, just hand my reg back. Me and my tanks are coming up slow. I've yet to have one handed back..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The OP asked for opinions on the AIR II.
So either, those of us with the DIR mindset and training, have to decide it is wrong to write our real opinons--which we believe could help people....or, we post and have to worry about offending huge numbers of good divers that like Air II's--because many will equate our concerns about the Air II with personal attacks on them personally, which was certainly not the case.

The OP specifically asked if hating the Air II was a "DIR thing" ... putting the DIR members of our community in a no-win situation. If they explain their position, they're damned as elitists. If they choose not to participate in the thread at all, the usual mob chimes in that they're elitists.

Either way, it was a loaded question ... kinda along the lines of someone asking you if you still beat your wife ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)