Why choosing an instructor sucks
- Thread starter BrianPH14
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Thanks. Just a note on taking a class with me. I don't teach a single student for intro to cave or full cave, it needs to be at least 2 students or a intro or above diver that is willing to act as the students buddy. I don't feel that the instructor acting as buddy and instructor is ideal, and not trying to make a living from teaching at this point of my life.. well
Many instructors/shops teach Intro to cave in 3 days, Min with me is 4. At this stage there is a "mix" of how prepared students are with trim/buoyancy and propulsion techniques. I don't mind teaching them, but I don't believe in teaching them and intro at exactly the same time. If somebody doesn't have those foundational skills mastered at entry I will pivot to doing Intro to Tech/cavern type instruction, even with folks that have one or both of those cards until we can progress to intro to cave. You will not be doing Intro to Cave with me in a single tank, I don't care that standards allow it. It will be done in doubles or sidemount.
Many Instructors/shops teach Full Cave in 4 days, I take 5 at least.
I recommend that students schedule an extra couple days post course. Ideally they will enjoy doing some fun diving, worst case we have scheduled time to wrap up (or do a Deep 6 reg repair class as a $100 per student add on).
I charge $300 a day for cave instruction per student based on 2 students, $250 a day based on 3.
It does not include gas, park passes, accommodations etc. I am likely to cook at least one meal for the class however on my dime.
To the OP:
Regarding four of your five points - reach out to a bunch of people. People who have been trained, different instructors... send emails or PMs. You'll click with some and might not click with others. In the end, as seriously as everyone like to take themselves in any small community, it's really just something silly to do because we enjoy doing it.
Or, I dunno, maybe you're the sort of person who really likes taking it all very seriously... but that, too, is just a personal choice of something to do for fun.
Just as some groups have different personalities so too, obviously, do different instructors. Some are super-chill. Some will yell at you underwater. Some are extremely demanding. Some are of the "that'll do" school.
All you can do is make sure that you stay safe and surround yourself with the sorts of people you'll be able to have a nice time with.
The one point, Florida vs. Mexico, is actually something I postulate on a whole hell of a lot. But there, too, there are pros and cons to each. There isn't a "better."
Want to get really good at reading flow and learning how to surf eddys around the cave - Florida is your place.
Looking to dial in extremely fine control of movement and do some really interesting navigational stuff - Mexico it is.
Want to get some depth and consequent deco in - Florida
Want to do a 2 hour dive even at the Intro level because you never go deeper than 20 feet - Mexico
I'm not going to say they're totally different sports, but they are definitely markedly different in a lot of ways. Best possible approach do a bit of training (and DEFINITELY do a ton of diving) in each environment. Get good at them each and you'll be better at them both.
Geologically and hydrologically they're very different as well.
Regarding four of your five points - reach out to a bunch of people. People who have been trained, different instructors... send emails or PMs. You'll click with some and might not click with others. In the end, as seriously as everyone like to take themselves in any small community, it's really just something silly to do because we enjoy doing it.
Or, I dunno, maybe you're the sort of person who really likes taking it all very seriously... but that, too, is just a personal choice of something to do for fun.
Just as some groups have different personalities so too, obviously, do different instructors. Some are super-chill. Some will yell at you underwater. Some are extremely demanding. Some are of the "that'll do" school.
All you can do is make sure that you stay safe and surround yourself with the sorts of people you'll be able to have a nice time with.
The one point, Florida vs. Mexico, is actually something I postulate on a whole hell of a lot. But there, too, there are pros and cons to each. There isn't a "better."
Want to get really good at reading flow and learning how to surf eddys around the cave - Florida is your place.
Looking to dial in extremely fine control of movement and do some really interesting navigational stuff - Mexico it is.
Want to get some depth and consequent deco in - Florida
Want to do a 2 hour dive even at the Intro level because you never go deeper than 20 feet - Mexico
I'm not going to say they're totally different sports, but they are definitely markedly different in a lot of ways. Best possible approach do a bit of training (and DEFINITELY do a ton of diving) in each environment. Get good at them each and you'll be better at them both.
Geologically and hydrologically they're very different as well.
When I was looking for a cave instructor, quite a few years ago, I read through a number of threads like this and got pretty much the same information--remarkably similar, in fact.
I realized there are generally two kinds of students, and they should understand which they are and choose an instructor that matches them. Some people really like to have instructors that shout at them, berate them, and curse at them. They feel that kind of instruction must be better because...because....well, I really don't know why they think it is better, but they do. Personally, when I make a mistake, no one can beat me up any better than I do to myself, so I don't need somebody piling on. I chose an instructor who made sure I met all the standards without all of that commotion.
Here are two stories.
1. I finished a dive thinking I had done a decent job. We sat on the steps by the spring entrance to debrief as usual, and he turned to me and said, "Well, you killed the team today." That was how he introduced the fact that I had casually followed along as the last diver in line and not even noticed we had taken a small blind jump. Well, that stuck with me, and years later I remembered that calm comment vividly when I did notice when the lead diver mistakenly took a short blind job and signalled him to get us back on the correct exit.
2. I was pulling the line in very, very high flow, and I ended up in a tangled mess. I was crushed. Humiliated. We exited, and he didn't say a word about it. We ate lunch. We switched our gear to a second set of doubles. We put the doubles on. He patted me on the shoulder and said, "It wasn't that bad. This time you'll do it right."
So, if you would have preferred being screamed at in those situations, then you definitely need to avoid the kind of instructor I had. (BTW, I don't think mine is doing cave instruction these days.)
I realized there are generally two kinds of students, and they should understand which they are and choose an instructor that matches them. Some people really like to have instructors that shout at them, berate them, and curse at them. They feel that kind of instruction must be better because...because....well, I really don't know why they think it is better, but they do. Personally, when I make a mistake, no one can beat me up any better than I do to myself, so I don't need somebody piling on. I chose an instructor who made sure I met all the standards without all of that commotion.
Here are two stories.
1. I finished a dive thinking I had done a decent job. We sat on the steps by the spring entrance to debrief as usual, and he turned to me and said, "Well, you killed the team today." That was how he introduced the fact that I had casually followed along as the last diver in line and not even noticed we had taken a small blind jump. Well, that stuck with me, and years later I remembered that calm comment vividly when I did notice when the lead diver mistakenly took a short blind job and signalled him to get us back on the correct exit.
2. I was pulling the line in very, very high flow, and I ended up in a tangled mess. I was crushed. Humiliated. We exited, and he didn't say a word about it. We ate lunch. We switched our gear to a second set of doubles. We put the doubles on. He patted me on the shoulder and said, "It wasn't that bad. This time you'll do it right."
So, if you would have preferred being screamed at in those situations, then you definitely need to avoid the kind of instructor I had. (BTW, I don't think mine is doing cave instruction these days.)
Mexico or Florida?
I was taught how to find a lost line in my cave classes in Florida. I was successful. Some time after that, I went diving in Mexico for the first time. On one of the dives, I thought about the way I had been taught to find a lost line, and I realized that it would never work in that environment. I later learned that different instructors teach different methods to find a lost line, and different methods work better in different environments.
I was taught how to find a lost line in my cave classes in Florida. I was successful. Some time after that, I went diving in Mexico for the first time. On one of the dives, I thought about the way I had been taught to find a lost line, and I realized that it would never work in that environment. I later learned that different instructors teach different methods to find a lost line, and different methods work better in different environments.
It is the instructor's job to make sure you run line properly, and a good instructor will deal with circumstances appropriately. I started my cave training in Florida in a particularly rainy spell, and all the caves except one were blown out. Knowing that everyone would be in that one cave, and wanting to avoid a real mess at the entrance, a line was put into place with instructions that no other line was to be used. No problem. I was just taken into a side tunnel where I laid line over and over again.
Ginnie?
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