Why choosing an instructor sucks

[boulderjohn]

Ginnie?

Yes. Catacombs.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Yes. Catacombs.

The Catacombs ugh... I spent a non-trivial amount of time in there. Didn't see much with the mask on.

 

[boulderjohn]

Agencies need to either be more strict about who they certify as instructors, as well as requiring periodic re certification or continuing education credits or come up with a system to rate instructors and make those ratings available to the consuming public. Alternatively someone could run a 3rd party evaluation system, like yelp.

I was the primary designer of a teacher evaluation system used by a major school district today. A new teacher is certified after years of training costing tens of thousands of dollars. Once hired, they are required by law to have continuing education and regular evaluations, which could cost them their jobs if they are not satisfactory. That system also costs many tens of thousands of dollars.

And yet we have tens of thousands of teachers in the workforce who truly suck at their jobs.

So how would you create a better system for scuba, a system to train and continually evaluate scuba instructors to eliminate the incompetents? How much would it cost for the instructor, the dive shops who hire them, and the agencies required to manage their continuing education? As you make those calculations, keep in mind that the punch line to a very old joke is that the difference between an extra large pizza and a scuba instructor is that an extra large pizza can feed a family of four.

 

[cerich]

I was the primary designer of a teacher evaluation system used by a major school district today. A new teacher is certified after years of training costing tens of thousands of dollars. Once hired, they are required by law to have continuing education and regular evaluations, which could cost them their jobs if they are not satisfactory. That system also costs many tens of thousands of dollars.

And yet we have tens of thousands of teachers in the workforce who truly suck at their jobs.

So how would you create a better system for scuba, a system to train and continually evaluate scuba instructors to eliminate the incompetents? How much would it cost for the instructor, the dive shops who hire them, and the agencies required to manage their continuing education? As you make those calculations, keep in mind that the punch line to a very old jokke is that the difference between an extra large pizza and a scuba instructor is that an extra large pizza can feed a family of four.

I would postulate that if the barriers were higher that higher would be charged allowing more dive instructors to make a living at it

 

[Manatee Diver]

I would postulate that if the barriers were higher that higher would be charged allowing more dive instructors to make a living at it

Aviation has a very high barrier of entry, yet no one makes any money until they get rather senior due to the amount of people wanting to enter it regardless of the barrier.

 

[cerich]

Aviation has a very high barrier of entry, yet no one makes any money until they get rather senior due to the amount of people wanting to enter it regardless of the barrier.

until covid that was actually not recently true. Aviation has supply and demand curves as well and for diving, fewer see it as a career, fewer would pay higher to enter and prices and supply would go down, money made up. Then it would start a cycle

 

[Manatee Diver]

until covid that was actually not recently true. Aviation has supply and demand curves as well and for diving, fewer see it as a career, fewer would pay higher to enter and prices and supply would go down, money made up. Then it would start a cycle

Well the joke @boulderjohn said about dive instructors was one I heard around the airport with flight instructors. Except the pizza was large back then. So though it might have improved it certainly was like that in the early 2000s.

 

[cerich]

Well the joke @boulderjohn said about dive instructors was one I heard around the airport with flight instructors. Except the pizza was large back then. So though it might have improved it certainly was like that in the early 2000s.

It was then

 

[tbone1004]

bit late to the party @BrianPH14 but since @RyanT tagged me, I'll chime in.

One thing that many students overlook and many instructors are ignorant about is beginning with the end in mind. If you start at your end goal and work backwards, you will be able to chart a better path than going wherever the current takes you.

I have not dived in MO caves, and am not in tune with the community or instructors out there to be able to make any specific recommendations, but here are my thoughts on the matter.

There are factions in Florida, Mexico, France, everywhere, so you'll piss someone off at some point and if you want to actively dive in those areas, you are almost required to "pick" one of them. You can try to stay unbiased, but then you end up as a bit of a loner if the factions are heavily divided because you won't be "fully accepted" by any of the groups. Pros and cons, and that doesn't mean you have to get ugly about it, but you'll have your preferred places to get gas, preferred people to dive with, etc. and you can maintain relationships with the "others" but it's unlikely they'll ever fully accept you. It is what it is and those factions meld and divide over time so don't be too divisive and actively go out of your way to piss the "others" off, but don't be afraid of aligning yourself with one or the other.
In Marianna there is an Edd vs. Rob thing that is still going on. It is no secret that I'm friends with Edd, but I've made it a point not to piss Rob off. He'll never invite me over for dinner, but he's not going to kick me out of his shop either.

My gut reaction would be to just pick an instructor in your area, that is actively "fun diving" those caves, and ideally one you click with. It will give you training in the environment you are going to be diving in, hopefully it will allow you to develop a mentorship relationship with that instructor instead of "student:instructor" relationship that does not really continue after class is over, and lets you stay close to home which is always helpful.

If you decide that you want to travel for training, I would recommend going to Florida as the caves in Florida are more analogous to the caves in MO than the ones in Mexico. They have flow, they are more solution tube type caves, etc etc.

 

[Superlyte27]

Mods: thanks for the cleanup. Chris and I had a pleasant phone call yesterday and we have settled our differences. I look forward to diving with him or enjoying a meal together.