Why choosing an instructor sucks

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BrianPH14

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Messages
34
Reaction score
20
Location
Kansas City
# of dives
50 - 99
I'm in the process of choosing an instructor for cave diving, and in reference to anything that is trying to kill me I always seek out second opinions. Here are some of the many reasons this process sucks.

1. Factions. In my home state of MO there are multiple groups that cave dive and none of them do it the same way or place the same value in all aspects of the process of cave diving.

2. Small community that isn't small enough. Everyone seems to know everyone else within two points of separation. which brings me into my next point...

3. Strong Opinions / Personalities. Every small group thinks that every other group is full of pricks, or are dangerous, or add whatever other adjective you want to that. One person from the group had a bad run-in with one person from the other group and everyone got on board with the tiff. Similarly I've had a group of people tell me very passionately that backmount doubles suck when none of them had ever tried BM, but they heard a friend of theirs that tried them once voice preference for sidemount. That kind of stuff.

4. Logistics. Some people say mexico is the best place to learn caves, others say Florida. Some say you need to do both to get a holistic training experience. I've been told that I can learn to dive in FL or MX but the conditions are so much more gnarly in MO that I'd have to practically relearn for local caves. Some people say to learn in a few places from a few different instructors. Some say to stick with one.

5. Lastly, and my biggest issue personally, I have no way to really evaluate an instructors diving because I'm not able to get into a cave with them until its too late. So group A could be right that they rock or group B could be right that the instructor should be avoided and I'll be none the wiser until my life is already in their hands and could have a bunch more money on training and travel to correct any shortcomings or whatever.


I hate politics, especially in leisure. As an outsider its difficult to rise above it when the entire experience is literally underground. Thats all I had to say.
 
Ask for recommendations (past students) and make the calls?
 
Hi Brian:

I don't have much to offer other than I feel your pain because I'm also interested in cave training. If you do some searches here on SB, there is actually a lot. There are several instructors on here who have offered a wealth of information including: @kensuf, @tbone1004, @chairman. In addition, several of our members have provided extensive write ups of their experience with cave training and I've found these enormously useful. @dewdropsonrosa comes to mind most recently.

Regarding where to train, as I understand it, the Florida and Mexico cave systems are really different. I think like anything, it would be ideal to get experience in both systems. When I start down that path, I plan to go begin in Florida as I'd like to start my training learning how to deal with flow in addition to all the other things.
 
Fairly stated.
I'm in the process of choosing an instructor for cave diving, and in reference to anything that is trying to kill me I always seek out second opinions. Here are some of the many reasons this process sucks.

1. Factions. In my home state of MO there are multiple groups that cave dive and none of them do it the same way or place the same value in all aspects of the process of cave diving.

2. Small community that isn't small enough. Everyone seems to know everyone else within two points of separation. which brings me into my next point...

3. Strong Opinions / Personalities. Every small group thinks that every other group is full of pricks, or are dangerous, or add whatever other adjective you want to that. One person from the group had a bad run-in with one person from the other group and everyone got on board with the tiff. Similarly I've had a group of people tell me very passionately that backmount doubles suck when none of them had ever tried BM, but they heard a friend of theirs that tried them once voice preference for sidemount. That kind of stuff.

4. Logistics. Some people say mexico is the best place to learn caves, others say Florida. Some say you need to do both to get a holistic training experience. I've been told that I can learn to dive in FL or MX but the conditions are so much more gnarly in MO that I'd have to practically relearn for local caves. Some people say to learn in a few places from a few different instructors. Some say to stick with one.

5. Lastly, and my biggest issue personally, I have no way to really evaluate an instructors diving because I'm not able to get into a cave with them until its too late. So group A could be right that they rock or group B could be right that the instructor should be avoided and I'll be none the wiser until my life is already in their hands and could have a bunch more money on training and travel to correct any shortcomings or whatever.


I hate politics, especially in leisure. As an outsider its difficult to rise above it when the entire experience is literally underground. Thats all I had to say.
 
Ask for recommendations (past students) and make the calls?

That kind of goes back to points 2 and 3. Everyone has their recommendations and now that I've spoken to a few instructors I've had good vibes from all of them despite several other people saying to both go to them and avoid them. Everyone sounds competent to someone who doesn't know any better.
 
Ok.. you said a lot there.. I will try to unpack that a little with JMHO

1) There are certainly factions, or clicks, those exist in almost every sport/hobby I have been a part of. I will just point out that what you see/hear is sort of the iceberg effect. For every high profile loudmouth, there are probably 3-5x as many who do there best to stay away from the bs. Especially online. It’s your job to network and decide who you want to seek out, or avoid.

2) it is a small community, but I meet new people all the time. There is a certain turn-over as the average cave diver seems to have a 3-5yr burn cycle.

3) well of course, opinions are like.... some people seem to forget that the majority of cave divers dove exclusively BM doubles long before sidemount was a popular option. There are advantages to both. Anyone to talks down BM for an entry cave diver, is either ignorant or had a hidden agenda. **see, I have an opinion too. :)

4) of course FLorida is best! Hahah.. logistics for US based divers is certainly easier. If your goal is to dive cold, high flow cave w steel tanks, Then FL is definitely better.
...but Mexico caves are darn cool. Can’t wait to go back :)

5) as far as your final choice.. a few things will make a big diff.
-are you planning the GUE/DIR path? Or even a solid Hogarthian approach?
-sounds like you want to be in Backmount doubles? If you are sure, there are many instructors who “will” teach you in doubles. But I would seek out one who dives that way as a preferred configuration. Yes, those guys do exist!
-are you gear-brand centric? Some might say it “shouldn’t” matter, but there are advantages to diving and learning from people with similar gear.
-personality? Do you like a strict, very regimented training, or something more laid back and “fun” centric? There are some instructors who seem to be trying to be drill seargents. And there are some so laid back, that I wonder how seriously they take this.
-shop affiliation. Most of them do work closely with one or two shops. You may not even know until after the fact, which shop you prefer and why.
 
I really hate politics and egos. I've dealt with it here with some of the the older school tech divers. Luckily it's gotten much better.

In Missouri I've had great experiences with the Ozark Divers, the ones doing the exploration in Roubidoux and many of the Missouri caves. They dive multiple configurations, come from different agencies, and are the real deal. Im not sure if they teach but they'll know good people.
Dedicated to the Exploration, Preservation, and Public Education of our Underground Water Resources.

Florida will prepare you for your local caves, it has high flow, its deeper, a variety of vis, and navigational decisions. Mexico is very different, low to no flow in most systems, generally shallow, unlimited vis, very complex navigation and a lot of it. I still like the idea of splitting training between Mexico and Florida to teach variety.
 
Train in Florida and then do a fun trip to Mexico to gain experience. Save the MO caves for after you have experience. With the often limited vis and cold water in MO, most of the caves are what I personally don’t consider beginner caves.
 
That kind of goes back to points 2 and 3. Everyone has their recommendations and now that I've spoken to a few instructors I've had good vibes from all of them despite several other people saying to both go to them and avoid them. Everyone sounds competent to someone who doesn't know any better.
Dont get stuck in paralyses by analysis!
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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