Question TDI vs IANTD on cave diving course

[rainunderwater]

not sure whether to choose TDI or IANTD in terms of starting cave diving. I know it's about the instructor not the organization but TDI seems to have better material but IANTD more recognized(?) on cave sites. Is this true?

edit: I'm not starting cave anytime soon, just planning a road map. PADI AOW is next on list and then TDI Nitrox

 

[Rilelen]

There’s a very interesting interview with Chris Brock (cave instructor and training director for NSS-CDS) about his experience participating in a GUE Cave 1 and Cave 2 class as a student.

An Underground Perspective on GUE’s Cave Curriculum

It’s difficult to objectively compare and contrast technical courses from different training agencies, and many agencies are less than enthused about the prospect. So when I learned that NSS-CDS cave instructor and training council member, Chris Brock had completed GUE’s cave curriculum, I was...

indepthmag.com

 

[runsongas]

to throw another wrench in things, depending on your background and your short/intermediate term goals (ie how soon you want to push to do full cave/cave 2), NAUI Cave 1 may be a more attractive option too

 

[BoltSnap]

to throw another wrench in things, depending on your background and your short/intermediate term goals (ie how soon you want to push to do full cave/cave 2), NAUI Cave 1 may be a more attractive option, too

How/why so? What is special/different/unique about the NAUI course?

 

[runsongas]

full thirds, 2 nav, limited deco allowed

 

[rddvet]

to throw another wrench in things, depending on your background and your short/intermediate term goals (ie how soon you want to push to do full cave/cave 2), NAUI Cave 1 may be a more attractive option too

My initial cave training was NAUI and I very very much liked the limits. I have historically had very strong feelings about the CDS's cavern/intro/apprentice/full approach, which I'm glad they changed. The NAUI limits gave me so much room to explore and improve my diving that I didn't rush to move to the next class, which is what my issue with the CDS setup was. My wife and I are pretty conservative in our need to move to the next level. We were cavern for just over a year and cave 1 just shy of a year and we were locals diving 2 weekends a month. The NAUI limits allowed us to dive the caves in France and Mexico at cave 1 without breaking limits (due to nav decisions early in the caves in those places). Unfortunately, I think that the NAUI could give some divers just enough leeway to get into trouble. If I am remembering correctly, the NAUI limitations were very similar to the old GUE limits back then (12-15 years ago). I find the 1/2 of 1/3s or whatever it is for GUE now less attractive. I also appreciate that in NAUI Cave 2 you learn to stage dive. and some basic surveying. I pay little attention to the CDS nowadays and what they're doing, but back when Stage cave was a separate course (and I think may still be), it just pushed people to skip the class and go dive stages and learn them with buddies or on the fly. I know many people that just heard you dive 1/2s + 200 from a friend or the internet and they just grabbed stages and went at it, with no real understanding of stage and backgas management.

 

[inquis]

[NAUI gives] full thirds, 2 nav, limited deco allowed

That is much like NSS-CDS Apprentice Plus. At the instructor's discretion, you have the possibility of thirds, limited jumps, limited deco, some max distance, or various combinations thereof. [EDIT: thirds is part of the normal/non-plus Apprentice]. I got the combo with 3rds/jumps/deco and 1500 ft max distance. I was not given a hard definition of what "limited jumps" meant, but two seems aligned with the intent and was enough for me (with a decent SAC) at the FL caves like Ginnie, Peacock, Madison, & Little River. I never felt constrained by the "leash" -- there was plenty to see within the range that thirds gave me.

 

[runsongas]

@inquis do you have a link of the new standards?

 

[inquis]

I pay little attention to the CDS nowadays and what they're doing

My path: Did well enough for Apprentice Plus (didn't feel the need to take a stage after class) then Advanced Cave (which combines Full & Stage). Dunno if that's common or not. I'm sure the multi-stage and deco experience I had from a 50m OW cert didn't hurt.

I think overall it's a good path for someone with some tech experience. Folks should learn to dive doubles or sidemount before going into the overhead. Like most agencies, NSS-CDS has a Basics class (essentially a doubles primer, no overhead), though they emphasize linework more than others.

 

[inquis]

@inquis do you have a link of the new standards?

https://nsscds.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Standards221127.pdf

ETA: I don't see the Apprentice Plus called out separately in the above, but it wasn't called out in the standards that were in effect during my training either (early 2022, which was right after their revamp that removed Cavern as a prereq for Cave).

 

[caveandreas]

not sure whether to choose TDI or IANTD in terms of starting cave diving. I know it's about the instructor not the organization but TDI seems to have better material but IANTD more recognized(?) on cave sites. Is this true?

edit: I'm not starting cave anytime soon, just planning a road map. PADI AOW is next on list and then TDI Nitrox

It does not matter as none of those agencies have a detailed specific curriculum they require to be thought in their class. A TDI cave class can be very different from another TDI cave class from another instructor, but can be virtually the same as a IANTD class thought by the same instructor and vice versa.

So you just need to find a good instructor. A task that is quite difficult as you have probably no idea of what differentiate a good instructor from a not so good one. Realistically, you probably will end up with the one with the best marketing game.

If the instructor is an active explorer (active as something he regularly do, not as participated in one project 5 years ago) he probably have decent personal dive skills and very reasonable awareness in the cave. So that could be something to look for. But it does not speak to the instructors capacity to teach in a way that promotes long term learning.

There are some threads here about how find an instructor you can look up. In the mean time I would have focused on building solid fundamentals skills .