Question TDI vs IANTD on cave diving course

[rainunderwater]

not sure whether to choose TDI or IANTD in terms of starting cave diving. I know it's about the instructor not the organization but TDI seems to have better material but IANTD more recognized(?) on cave sites. Is this true?

edit: I'm not starting cave anytime soon, just planning a road map. PADI AOW is next on list and then TDI Nitrox

 

[Rilelen]

Back in the days it was NACD but i lost track of what happen with this agency i think it shut down or merge with another one.

NACD effectively no longer exists as a training agency. NSS-CDS is probably the closest equivalent (National Speleological Society - Cave Diving Section) today. Lots of great CDS instructors out there.

 

[34109411]

NACD effectively no longer exists as a training agency. NSS-CDS is probably the closest equivalent (National Speleological Society - Cave Diving Section) today. Lots of great CDS instructors out there.

thank you will check it for sure.

regards

 

[scottgrizzard]

@Lorenzoid Let me ask you differently: If somebody took the entire cave training program from a top-notch instructor from any of TDI/NAUI/IANTD, is there a reason for him to take a GUE Cave diving training? In other words, is there any extra information/skills/knowledge/competence going through the whole GUE cave diver training curriculum after he has completed the entire program through any of the other agencies?

I know you were asking someone else, but, as I understand it, some GUE divers and dive shops (and clubs/projects) have a thing about diving with non-GUE divers. So, if you want to dive with people who make a big deal about it, then you need to ask them.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

In Europe, some people teach with IANTD because you can do almost anything, up to potentially killing a student, and still not get expelled ( Fatal accident in Fontanazzi Cave and protests towards IANTD and others). IANTD also has absolutely horrendous materials full of Tom Mount voodoo - but also really sexy limits - for example, CCR Mod2 is down to 70 meters instead of 60 meters with TDI.

Pick an instructor, pick a training philosophy. Loads of instructors are aligned with "DIR-like" approach, whether it's under GUE or TDI. Loads of instructors teach alternatives. Fun way to break up with friends if you happen to select competing philosophies and have a domestic underwater .

 

[The Chairman]

not sure whether to choose TDI or IANTD in terms of starting cave diving. I know it's about the instructor not the organization but TDI seems to have better material but IANTD more recognized(?) on cave sites. Is this true?

edit: I'm not starting cave anytime soon, just planning a road map. PADI AOW is next on list and then TDI Nitrox

NSSCDS. They led the way. The others are no where near them.

 

[BoltSnap]

NSSCDS. They led the way. The others are no where near them.

How so?

 

[The Chairman]

How so?

They're "also-rans". The NSSCDS was created by Cave DIvers in '73, before either was created for the sole purpose of training cave divers.

It's the only thing they do.

The NACD was earlier, but they imploded a number of years ago under some weird politics and I have no idea if they have ever recovered.

IANTD came a dozen years later.

TDI was an offshoot due to a personal conflict at IANTD.

Almost anyone can become an instructor for TDI and IANTD. Becoming an NSSCDS instructor is a lot, lot harder.

I hold certifications from all of the aforementioned agencies. I know instructors and instructor trainers from all of those agencies. For me, it's not even close. The NSSCDS is not a for-profit company. They only worry about safety, and not the bottom line. Harsh? Maybe? I know I'll ruffle a lot of feathers with my stance, and guess what: I don't have economic ties to any of the agencies mentioned. I was an SDI/TDI instructor, but stopped teaching a few years ago.

There is no perfect agency, not even GUE, and your course can only be as good as your instructor is. About GUE: they are truly awesome, and they actually charge what they are worth. I could never afford them. I know many there, including instructors, instructor trainers, the founders, and the founder of DIR. They are worth every cent.

There are even more we-do-it-all certification agencies that I haven't mentioned. They are all on par with IANTD and TDI/SDI in my book. They are jacks of all trades but a master of none. The NSSCDS does just one thing: Caves. They do it well. If you want a short list of great instructors for the NSSCDS, send me a DM and I'll do my best to tell you my favorite.

That is my personal opinion. It's what I truly believe. It may not be popular. It is still my opinion. Your opinion may vary from mine. This why I believe what I believe.

 

[Lorenzoid]

@Lorenzoid Let me ask you differently: If somebody took the entire cave training program from a top-notch instructor from any of TDI/NAUI/IANTD, is there a reason for him to take a GUE Cave diving training? In other words, is there any extra information/skills/knowledge/competence going through the whole GUE cave diver training curriculum after he has completed the entire program through any of the other agencies?

No. As I see it, there may be reasons why a diver is attracted to GUE, but the basics of cave diving are the same no matter the agency. A top notch instructor is the key.

I haven’t read others’ responses yet, but I know @rddvet did GUE Cave 1 as an already experienced cave diver. He may have a perspective.

 

[rddvet]

@Lorenzoid Let me ask you differently: If somebody took the entire cave training program from a top-notch instructor from any of TDI/NAUI/IANTD, is there a reason for him to take a GUE Cave diving training? In other words, is there any extra information/skills/knowledge/competence going through the whole GUE cave diver training curriculum after he has completed the entire program through any of the other agencies?

That’s a somewhat hard question to answer since there’s so many parameters. My initial cave training was with what I felt were top notch instructors including some big names like Edd. I believe I got excellent training and was a good cave diver. But over time as my diving progressed and I moved to ccr I felt less confident in my skills. There were some holes in my training I was finding years later. And my early training though I believed was “team based” was nothing like a gue team dynamic. I chose to add some gue training to fill in the holes I felt existed in my diving and as a confident boost. An example of a “hole” in training was one instructor was ok with light on your right hand. I learned very quickly on a scooter why the muscle memory of light on right hand was a bad habit I needed to break. There were others and they were minor but still existed.
I personally believe every diver should regularly retest themselves with recurrent training. That doesnt mean taking a full series of courses again. But working with a mentor or dropping into a new instructors class can be eye opening. I don’t care what agency an instructor is with. If the instructor is good and the student is open minded, they will always pick up a tip or trick from a new instructor.

 

[The Chairman]

Let me ask you differently: If somebody took the entire cave training program from a top-notch instructor from any of TDI/NAUI/IANTD, is there a reason for him to take a GUE Cave diving training?

I'm not Lorenzoid, but I'll answer this as well. The approaches are a bit different. GUE is all about integrating with the team. After that both are about safety, safety, safety. I would dive with either graduate and most would dive with me.