Anti-Hero
Contributor
No matter what you've heard - Size does matter.
Why breathe from a long hose?
- Thread starter btroxell
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pacificgal
Rest in Peace...
Is that in reference to the hose or holding someone down?
In an open water air-sharing ascent it is fairly common for your partner to forget to vent air on the way up. This can lead to bad things for both of you. If you are holding onto them with your right hand you are probably close enough to reach over with the left hand, elevate their inflator and vent air for them (you both actually), or if they have a dump valve handle on their right shoulder you could use that.
pacificgal, there is no standard technique for keeping somebody from ascending if they want to. In fact, if someone is sufficiently panic-stricken, all you can do is slow the ascent as best you can, by being negative and maybe flaring out some. I've found that even slowing or stopping someone who has simply lost buoyancy control can be difficult to impossible, let alone someone who is determined to get to the surface.
I'm surprised to hear this. I just assumed this was one of those things DMs or assistant instructors are taught as they prepare to help with new OW students. Even if this is the case though, there certainly hasn't been any percolating down of such knowledge/techniques to recreational divers or classes (perhaps with good reason).
mrfixitchapman
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Add one other valid point. When your backup reg is secured on the necklace under you chin it can not be dragging around and becoming an entanglement hazard.
In terms of procedure - I always breathe off both of my regs above the surface and then again below the surface on every dive. That way I get one less surprise.....
DC
In terms of procedure - I always breathe off both of my regs above the surface and then again below the surface on every dive. That way I get one less surprise.....
DC
There are three basic phases to an OOA.
In the first phase the OOA diver gets a reg. In the training world, the OOA divers swims up, gives an OOA sign and waits for you to hand them the octo.
I have had 3 real world OOA situations where I have donated gas. The first two were to divers who found me before their buddies and the third was a diver in our group with a freeze flow. In the first two situaions they went straight for my primary with no warning, so signaling, etc. When an OOA diver wants air they tend to want it right now.
In my opinon you just as well train to donate your primary as 2 out of 3 times, they are gonna take your primary anyway.
On to the next step. Once the near panicked diver has your short hosed (36"-40") octo, the short hose it is bent 180 degrees around to face the OOA diver and it is more or less on the verge of pulling itself out of the OOA divers mouth. It requires one of the OOA diver's hands to hold it in and it still won't feel secure in the real world once you are no longer just kneeling on the bottomThis does not help alleviate the incipent panic.
Finally, during the third phase you have to get to the surface. With a short hose, your only option is basically a straight ascent to the surface. You'd have to be very coordinated to swim back to the ascent line, so potentially, you may ascend immedaitely in perhaps the middle fo the shipping channel or perhaps just drift away from the boat for the 30-45 minutes left before the other divers are back aboard and they are able to come get you. You can get real small after 30-45 minutes drifting downcurrent from the boat.
With a long hose, it is a lot different.
You are trained to donate the long hose, and the backup is easy to find bungeed under your neck. With 7' of hose, the buddy can free up both hands and he will not feel like the reg is about to be pulled loose and it tends to reduce any panic. Plus you have the option of swimming normally side by side to the ascent line / out of the shipping channel, greatly expanding your options.
In the event the OOA diver panics and bolts to the surface, you really aren't going to get drug up with him. Worst case, he gets 7 ft above you, then you jerk the primary and it comes right out of his mouth. Best case, you still have a full range of options to dump his bc, control his ascent, etc. You also have enough hose to move around behind him, straddle his tank and then control his ascent regardless of the panic level. Try that with a short hose octo.
The ability to swim als gives you soem preventive options. Say you are in the middle of the dive and your buddy suddenly shows up with 300 psi while you still have 1500. You can donate your long hose, share gas ont eh swim back to the ascent line, on ascent and on the safety stop, then send him up to the boat from the safety stop on his own backgas for a normal ascent and exit.
DIR or not is not the issue, the important thing is that there is no downside to a long hose and it works better than a short hose octo in any scenario you would encounter, even in recreational diving.
In the first phase the OOA diver gets a reg. In the training world, the OOA divers swims up, gives an OOA sign and waits for you to hand them the octo.
I have had 3 real world OOA situations where I have donated gas. The first two were to divers who found me before their buddies and the third was a diver in our group with a freeze flow. In the first two situaions they went straight for my primary with no warning, so signaling, etc. When an OOA diver wants air they tend to want it right now.
In my opinon you just as well train to donate your primary as 2 out of 3 times, they are gonna take your primary anyway.
On to the next step. Once the near panicked diver has your short hosed (36"-40") octo, the short hose it is bent 180 degrees around to face the OOA diver and it is more or less on the verge of pulling itself out of the OOA divers mouth. It requires one of the OOA diver's hands to hold it in and it still won't feel secure in the real world once you are no longer just kneeling on the bottomThis does not help alleviate the incipent panic.
Finally, during the third phase you have to get to the surface. With a short hose, your only option is basically a straight ascent to the surface. You'd have to be very coordinated to swim back to the ascent line, so potentially, you may ascend immedaitely in perhaps the middle fo the shipping channel or perhaps just drift away from the boat for the 30-45 minutes left before the other divers are back aboard and they are able to come get you. You can get real small after 30-45 minutes drifting downcurrent from the boat.
With a long hose, it is a lot different.
You are trained to donate the long hose, and the backup is easy to find bungeed under your neck. With 7' of hose, the buddy can free up both hands and he will not feel like the reg is about to be pulled loose and it tends to reduce any panic. Plus you have the option of swimming normally side by side to the ascent line / out of the shipping channel, greatly expanding your options.
In the event the OOA diver panics and bolts to the surface, you really aren't going to get drug up with him. Worst case, he gets 7 ft above you, then you jerk the primary and it comes right out of his mouth. Best case, you still have a full range of options to dump his bc, control his ascent, etc. You also have enough hose to move around behind him, straddle his tank and then control his ascent regardless of the panic level. Try that with a short hose octo.
The ability to swim als gives you soem preventive options. Say you are in the middle of the dive and your buddy suddenly shows up with 300 psi while you still have 1500. You can donate your long hose, share gas ont eh swim back to the ascent line, on ascent and on the safety stop, then send him up to the boat from the safety stop on his own backgas for a normal ascent and exit.
DIR or not is not the issue, the important thing is that there is no downside to a long hose and it works better than a short hose octo in any scenario you would encounter, even in recreational diving.
First, Kenn you are correct in that I'm not questioning the length of the hose but why donate the primary. And second, I'm quoting Mr DIR on his reason to donate the primary ("because you know it works"), it's not because I don't think my regulator is faulty.
From what I have read, some people who panic grab the reg out of the 'donor's' mouth others grab the octo as they have been taught. And if the octo is on a yellow hose, I think that would encourage them even more to grab it.
I'm still not convinced that is the configuration I want to dive, I need to think about ti some more. But thanks for the input and the food for thought.
Ben
From what I have read, some people who panic grab the reg out of the 'donor's' mouth others grab the octo as they have been taught. And if the octo is on a yellow hose, I think that would encourage them even more to grab it.
I'm still not convinced that is the configuration I want to dive, I need to think about ti some more. But thanks for the input and the food for thought.
Ben
fisheater
Contributor
When you're using a long hose/bungied secondary configuration, you're secondary reg is not on a yellow hose and shouldn't have a yellow purge valve. In real life it's virtually invisible to an OOA diver. No confusion. They'll look to or grab your primary. (Especially if you've taken it out and offered it to them.)
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Nonsense. Training is whats at issue, not gear.
A trained diver knows how to manage an OOA diver, even a panicked one.
A trained diver knows how to return both to the ascent line and has no issue going side by side with an OOA diver on their octo.
A trained diver knows how to manage a safety stop, even with another diver on their octo.
And you are right DIR or not is not the issue, training is.
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