Why breathe from a long hose?

[Teamcasa]

No offense intended but digging in on an issue like this is hard for many divers to fathom. ... No one is saying that using a standard lenght octo is "unsafe", anymore than the original octo promoters said buddy breathing was "unsafe".

I don't feel like I'm digging in at all. I'm just pointing out that the current octo configuration is quite safe and easy to use in a recreational, open water dive. (I'm still waiting for someone to show where the long hose would have been safer than the standard configuration in a recreational, open water dive between two properly trained divers.)

The digging in seems to come more from the long hose divers trying to promote their gear selection at the expense of the standard configuration. See below.

While the short hose octo is not "unsafe", it is antiquated
I would argue much safer, in situations where one or both of the divers may not have practiced an air share lately.
I am confident that in 10 years the long hose primary will be standard - 5' for recreational diving rather than the current 7' used for overhead diving.
The sad part is that it will take 10 years to get there and lives will be lost in the interim.

Personally, I think unless a diver has tried a long hose in the real world and has practiced gas sharing in some realistic real world OOA scenarios, they really don't have an informed opinion on the issue.

I have not expressed any opinions on the long hose configuration and in many cases have suggested it.

As for your last statement, this board is rife with divers who are more than willing to slam products they have never even seen firsthand much less tried before offering their acidic opinions.

For me, if you can't make a case for your gear selection without demeaning other people or their choices, your opinion has significantly less credibility.

 

[Teamcasa]

Nice post, DAA.

I was thinking about this topic last night, and it occurred to me that people who are really worried about donating the primary and being left without a regulator in their mouth may actually be revealing a bit of anxiety about losing a regulator. I know that when I was a new diver, I would rush through drills because I didn't like being without a reg. I think everybody should practice switching regulators until they are comfortable doing it, no matter WHAT kind of configuration you are using, because you can't predict that someone needing gas will wait politely until you can get your octo to them, AND you can't predict when something will happen to your primary and you will need to self-rescue (breathing wet, losing mouthpiece, etc.) If you are comfortable with and have practiced regulator exchange, then donating the primary should be a non-event.

I completely agree that many divers get a little anxious when having to donate their primary and absolutely tremble at the thought that some panicked OOA diver is going to suddenly snatch their reg when they least expect it. But as you correctly pointed out, training helps to alleviate this feeling.

When it happens, and if you dive enough it surely will, regardless of your gear selection, once both divers have air and are breathing normally, most of the time the panic subsides and you can both slow down, relax and surface safely. (Dealing with a truly panicked diver is another thread.)

The bottom line is training and experience have more to do with you and your buddy's safety than any individual choice in gear. If I don't know how to play the violin, it won't matter if I'm trying out a Stradivarius or one from KMart.

 

[drbill]

I'd need a 50 ft long hose for some of my regular buddies... we're essentially solo (and equipped for it) since we film or take stills together. In team diving it certainly does make sense although in kelp forest "muck diving" they can be a PITA if not secured well.

 

[mdb]

Since I dive solo, most of the time, this is a non-issue for me these days.

I have had two real world incidents when divers OOA needed a donor. In both cases they went for my primary and I moved to the secondary. Looking back I would prefer a longer primary hose and a bungied secondary. Something to be learned from all disciplines.

 

[Cave Diver]

Since I dive solo, most of the time, this is a non-issue for me these days.

I have had two real world incidents when divers OOA needed a donor. In both cases they went for my primary and I moved to the secondary. Looking back I would prefer a longer primary hose and a bungied secondary. Something to be learned from all disciplines.

There are many merits to the long hose approach, even for solo divers as you've described.

 

[Anti-Hero]

AND ... if you're ever attacked by ninjas, you can deploy the long hose like a weapon. You can also remove both backup lights and clip the bolt snaps together for some bad-ass nun chucks. But that is an advanced technique which requires a Tech 2 rating or better.

 

[Rocketmahn]

I don't understand why divers use a "Noose" around their neck to hold the secondary.

Does the noose break away with very little force??

From the descriptions that I've read and equipment that I've seen (but never used) it sounds/looks like it is a continuous piece of bungee captured at both ends by the mouthguard cable tie.

It just seems plain dangerous.
What if a panicked OOA diver grabs that regulator instead of the one in your mouth?
What if your tank comes loose and slides out of it's mount only to be stopped by the short hose regulator (the one attached to the bungee around your neck)??
What if the regulator hose or bungee catches on something?
What if you (or a rescuer) needs to quickly ditch your gear only to find out that your gear is still attached to you by a bungee around your neck (for instance if a giant sea squid or octopus grabs onto your tank and tries to drag you into the depths!!! ? )


Am I missing something?

 

[Rainer]

Am I missing something?

Yeah.

 

[Cave Diver]

I don't understand why divers use a "Noose" around their neck to hold the secondary.

Does the noose break away with very little force??

From the descriptions that I've read and equipment that I've seen (but never used) it sounds/looks like it is a continuous piece of bungee captured at both ends by the mouthguard cable tie.

It just seems plain dangerous.
What if a panicked OOA diver grabs that regulator instead of the one in your mouth?
What if your tank comes loose and slides out of it's mount only to be stopped by the short hose regulator (the one attached to the bungee around your neck)??
What if the regulator hose or bungee catches on something?
What if you (or a rescuer) needs to quickly ditch your gear only to find out that your gear is still attached to you by a bungee around your neck (for instance if a giant sea squid or octopus grabs onto your tank and tries to drag you into the depths!!! ? )


Am I missing something?

There are many variations, but this will give you an idea. The reg will pull free from this just as easily as it will from an standard octo holder.

 

[Rocketmahn]

Cave Diver -
Thank you for the INFORMATIVE and useful reply.

That is not the setup up that I have seen, which was a bungee with both ends under the mouthpiece tie-wrap.

I'm assuming that the loop will come apart without too much force also.