Why breathe from a long hose?

[Web Monkey]

A couple of points. You could rip the mouthpiece off, but this would hardly be an optimal solution in an already stressful situation.

In regard to the diver with the unusually small mouth, this is something that needs to be discussed and worked out pre-dive. OOA situation is not the time to be worrying about the solution to this.

No it's not optimal (or even a good idea), but for divers that prefer drowning to sharing air with a particular mouthpiece, it's a possibility.

Terry

 

[Cave Diver]

I just couldn't imaging an OOA diver inspecting the donated mouth piece to see if it was something he liked.

I've actually been in this situation. No, not the gerbil part you sick pups!

We were doing training drills for CCR. It involved one diver facing the wall at the shallow end of the pool. The second diver experienced a (simulated) complete rig failure and had to swim the length of the pool in full kit on a single breath, and tap the first diver on the shoulder. D1 then had to turn around, grab bail out reg, offer it to D2. Then both divers had to swim back to the deep end, doing a dynamic bailout bottle switch in the process (He gave me his, I gave him mine, which he was now breathing off of).

As it turned out, the reg I'd grabbed to use for this exercise was off of one of my open circuit O2 deco bottles. This particular reg had an elastic strap covering the mouthpiece. It was designed as a visual/tactile reminder that this was shallow water deco gas and to prevent inadvertently breathing off of it at depth.

You COULD breathe through the reg with it in place, but it was kind of like sucking through a wet t-shirt.

So my buddy swims to me, we fumble around some since we're still figuring out buoyancy on these rigs and by the time he gets a working reg in his mouth, he's a bit winded. His first breath is a bit wet and tastes like chlorine and he starts to cough and gag a little before he signals ok and we start the swim back to the deep end.

When we get there, I notice the mouthpiece and the nylon cover fluttering their way to the bottom of the pool. Suffice to say, my buddy wasn't especially impressed with the way this exercise went.

The mouthpiece was later recovered using a 50lb lift bag and some 18/45. The cover was not.

 

[Peter_C]

The resistance comes from the notion foisted upon recreational divers that if you are not using a long hose you are somehow an unsafe, untrained and somewhat of an uninformed diver.

Dave, you brought this up, no else has. Most are just saying there is another way that they feel is a better safer way with their reasoning behind it. Sharing such information is what these forums are for.

The long hose has a specific purpose, to allow divers to share air in a confined space. Can it be safely used in recreational, open water dives? Sure.
Is it unsafe to do so? Nope.
Will it allow for a safer air sharing event is open water? Nope.

The long hose does many things well and does not have one specific purpose. Being a kelp diver can you do an air share under a kelp canopy with a short hose? Have you tried it? Doing a kelp crawl because you are unable to share air while swimming underwater does not sound like fun to me. We have done air shares while swimming underwater just to balance each others tanks out with zero issues. Boat diving off a private boat, returning to the anchor line is important. In the event of gear failure causing an OOA we would be able to swim the distance back to the anchor line.

We also use scooters far offshore a lot, therefore a long hose is a must have for safety reasons to allow the OOA diver to tow the buddy with air. Scootering on the surface, in the Landlords territory, is not my idea of excitement.

Having been the donor in an OOA in open water, yes the long hose was nicer to have, since it allowed me to check their gear over from behind and confirm what the issue was. Yup, they were OOA LOL

Does it require significant training to use? Nope, just a little practice.

Agreed

Will it get tangled up in the Kelp and I die? Nope.

Having a long hose wrapped close to your body does keep the kelp from grabbing it. Having used many types of configurations, the only one that keeps the kelp monster from moving the reg around in my mouth is the long hose. Yes even a short 28" hose will get bumped by the kelp.

Dave, have you tried a long hose yet? If so have you used it for at least 10 dives yet?

 

[Teamcasa]

Dave, you brought this up, no else has. Most are just saying there is another way that they feel is a better safer way with their reasoning behind it. Sharing such information is what these forums are for.

I agree, sharing information is what this forum is for but below is just an example of the negative connotation applied to the standard octo setup from this thread.

I do not try to dissuade anyone for using a long hose and in fact would encourage its use in a cave or confined space. Add to that, divers that tend to chose the long hose configuration also take additional training, thus making them better divers. I see it as a win win. I just object to the notion that the standard configuration is somehow inherently unsafe for the recreational diver.

• unlike fumbling for a reg secured elsewhere.
• it can not be dragging around and becoming an entanglement hazard.
• Once the near panicked diver has your short hosed (36"-40") octo, the short hose it is bent 180 degrees around to face the OOA diver and it is more or less on the verge of pulling itself out of the OOA divers mouth.
• You'd have to be very coordinated to swim back to the ascent line,
• it works better than a short hose octo in any scenario you would encounter, even in recreational diving
• If it was an octo tucked away or dragging behind you, it may have some debris in it
• Streamlining! The long hose wraps behind your head and stays very close to your body. Therefore it does not get bumped or grabbed by the kelp monster.
• I know how to ride a horse and both will get me across the state, but it's a lot easier and faster in a car.

The long hose does many things well and does not have one specific purpose. Being a kelp diver can you do an air share under a kelp canopy with a short hose? Have you tried it?...

I dive in the kelp all the time. I've had no issue with the kelp when air sharing. I simply go around or below it or simply push it aside. Now these were practice dives with no stress but on the few occasions where it was put into real use, the kelp was not an issue.

We have done air shares while swimming underwater just to balance each others tanks out with zero issues.

I do the same with my lovely bride with no issues as well.

Boat diving off a private boat, returning to the anchor line is important. In the event of gear failure causing an OOA we would be able to swim the distance back to the anchor line.

How is that any different?

We also use scooters far offshore a lot, therefore a long hose is a must have for safety reasons to allow the OOA diver to tow the buddy with air. Scootering on the surface, in the Landlords territory, is not my idea of excitement.

Then I would suggest you keep using a long hose when scootering, no issue.

Having a long hose wrapped close to your body does keep the kelp from grabbing it. Having used many types of configurations, the only one that keeps the kelp monster from moving the reg around in my mouth is the long hose. Yes even a short 28" hose will get bumped by the kelp.

Bumped by kelp is going to happen, no matter the hose length. Your ability as a diver determines how you react to the bump.

Dave, have you tried a long hose yet? If so have you used it for at least 10 dives yet?

Nope, but should I decide to dive in a cave, penetrate a wreck or take up scootering, I'll be the first guy in line for the hose and training.

 

[Rainer]

I've not heard of a regulator being unusable in an airshare because of a seacure.

Well, I've seen it. Small woman diver doing s-drills with new buddy. He donates his reg with a Seacure mouthpiece and she starts gagging and aspirating water. It was an ugly scene until she went back to her necklace (she also had the option of going to my longhose which was in her face at the first sign of trouble). If you don't cut back those ridiculous flanges, you CAN cause people to choke.

 

[Rainer]

Nope, but should I decide to dive in a cave, penetrate a wreck or take up scootering, I'll be the first guy in line for the hose and training.

So just to be clear, your notion that air shares are just as easy in OW with a 36-40" hose vs. a long hose is based on absolutely no experience with one of the two set ups?

Gotcha.

 

[Peter_C]

Bumped by kelp is going to happen, no matter the hose length. Your ability as a diver determines how you react to the bump.

I can not remember the last time kelp bumped my reg enough for me to notice, but then again I have been using a long hose since about dive 35. I do remember my reg getting bumped fairly often prior to switching to a long hose.

Nope, but should I decide to dive in a cave, penetrate a wreck or take up scootering, I'll be the first guy in line for the hose and training.

Dave, try something new for yourself and go the long hose way Forget all the stigma you hear and read about it, and experience it for yourself. What can it hurt? The cost is minor in the scope of what we spend on dive gear.

No offense meant, but if you haven't tried something, how do you feel qualified to discuss it? I personally have used an octo on a 40" hose. Air II with different length regulator hoses. A 5' hose and now solely use a 7' hose with a bungee backup.

Also if someone points out a flaw with a system is that wrong? For instance I have seen many octo's being dragging through the sand and over rocks (along with consoles). I consider that harmful to the reef and hard on gear. That to me is a flaw in the equipment operation, and could cause the equipment to fail when needed due to sand keeping the exhaust valve open. Am I wrong for stating what I have seen many times?

 

[Brewski]

Well, I've seen it. Small woman diver doing s-drills with new buddy. He donates his reg with a Seacure mouthpiece and she starts gagging and aspirating water. It was an ugly scene until she went back to her necklace (she also had the option of going to my longhose which was in her face at the first sign of trouble). If you don't cut back those ridiculous flanges, you CAN cause people to choke.

This is one reason I have not converted over to the longer hose, since I use the seacure on my primary, and the secondary has the stock mouthpiece.

 

[Web Monkey]

So just to be clear, your notion that air shares are just as easy in OW with a 36-40" hose vs. a long hose is based on absolutely no experience with one of the two set ups?

When used as per OW training, the short hose is perfectly functional and not difficult to use at all.

The trained response to OW OOA incident calls for "sharing air to the surface", not swimming to some other location, continuing the dive or anything else. The OOA diver accepts the donated reg, everybody re-gathers their composure, verifies the OOA diver is OK, both divers grab each other's BC with the right hand, stay close and do a nice slow ascent to the surface while facing each other.

If an air-sharing event requires traveling any distance, a long hose is much nicer, however this is not what's covered in OW.

FWIW, I'd prefer teaching everybody to use bungied backup and long hose in OW, however my opinion won't change the OW curriculum, so at least for now, it is what it is.

Terry

 

[Rainer]

The fact is, though, your description of OW dives is BS.

There are PLENTY of dives I do in OW where swimming to some spot BEFORE ascending is a really, really good idea. If I had to do direct ascents in certain areas due to an OOG situation, I'd be in a world of hurt.

We dive shipping lanes and sites with potential floating gill nets, all of which make ascending on an anchor / mooring line SERIOUSLY better than free ascending.

On some charters, it could be a long time before the boat could come chase you down when the currents pick up if you had to free ascend and got blown away. Add rough seas and fog, and ascents off the line are just asking for compounding trouble.

Add now scooter dives and dives with thick kelp canopies and all of a sudden, sharing air on a 40" hose (which I'd practiced with extensively before going to the long hose) is just not ideal. Not in the least.

When used as per OW training, the short hose is perfectly functional and not difficult to use at all.

The trained response to OW OOA incident calls for "sharing air to the surface", not swimming to some other location, continuing the dive or anything else. The OOA diver accepts the donated reg, everybody re-gathers their composure, verifies the OOA diver is OK, both divers grab each other's BC with the right hand, stay close and do a nice slow ascent to the surface while facing each other.

If an air-sharing event requires traveling any distance, a long hose is much nicer, however this is not what's covered in OW.

FWIW, I'd prefer teaching everybody to use bungied backup and long hose in OW, however my opinion won't change the OW curriculum, so at least for now, it is what it is.

Terry