Why are so many female divers codependent?

[DonandJareeHall]

My wife and I will be going to Cozumel for our 30th anniversary this next summer, and we recently got PADI certified so we (primarily me!) can dive. She's had to overcome a lot of fear just to get through the certification process. I guess I've probably done too much for her in the certification and pool dives we've done since, but I want her to be able to go slowly at this stage and get comfortable at her own pace without having to worry about anything I can do for her related to helping get geared up. Having said that, I'll probably back off with the help after reading this thread!

 

[gNats]

This was a great post, and obviously from the discussion is affects everyone a little different.

I am a single female and recently became certified. I was introduced to diving through someone with whom I was exploring a relationship. We have since ended the relationship, but I intend to continue diving. I'll make new friends, join clubs, participate any way I can to increase my dive buddy pool.

Diving is either a part of you or it is not. In my opinion, the co-dependency stems from the woman's inner desire to scuba. I've met a lot of woman divers who are in this sport only because of HIM. If he stops scuba diving, she can walk away, no problem.

Because diving is not an addiction, they go through the mechanics of learning and taking control and ownership of their dive. I'm not talking about carrying equipment. It's not about lugging an 80 cuft tank across the parking lot.

But, it is about knowing the inner workings of your equipment. When I was going through my cert, said gentleman was more than eager to "assist" and "help". I really did ask him to go away and leave me and my instructor. I was paying my instructor, who I had the utmost confidence in, and I was adament to learn this sport.

For my own safety. And, what is confidence but knowing your abilities and having confidence in what you do know? You will never gain confidence if you are unsure how to screw the "thingy" to the tank.

Personally, I think the men are putting themselves in more danger and really wonder why they would do that to themselves. Think about it. Would a GUY go out on a diving outing with a MALE buddy who has over 25 dives and can't control his own boyancy? Or doesn't know how to assemble his gear properly? Or properly perform a safety check? Who doesn't know how to read his computer to determine the amount of air he has left.

I'm thinking not.

I gathered from a few earlier posters that the women felt safer by allowing their husband's / BFs to control THEIR dive. That personally, freaks me out. The idea of buddy diving, I thought, was to watch each other's backs. If one of the divers is not comfortable and not skilled in both the theory and mechanics of diving, how can that person be of personal protection to the other diver? Additionally, if there WAS a safety issue, could the woman control her own panic enough to SAVE her husband? Or would her panic only increase the danger of the situation?

I have been up in private planes, on sailboats, on the back of motorcycles, all owned and operated by men. However, I make it a personal point to ask enough questions to assist or better yet, take control, should the need arise. Because, if something happens to HIM, who the heck is gonna save me?

Only me.

I want to know how to use the communication system, drop the sails, tack the boat. I may not have enough experience, but I should have a general idea of what to do first in an emergency.

These guys who allow the co-dependency and encourage it, in my opinion, are no better off than if they were diving solo without a redundant air supply. They must be so desperate to have a guaranteed dive buddy, that they fail to question what would happen if their air hose came off their tank? Would their wife / gf control their own nervousness to assist in the solution, rather than become the actual problem?

Guys: If your woman does not have scuba diving in her soul, let her walk away. If it is a take it or leave it sport for her, find a different buddy. If she is nervous and lacking confidence, give her "dive preparation and planning tasks" to build her knowledge and confidence. Let her navigate. Teach her/show her/encourage her if she is nervous.

She may never dive without you. But, at least guarantee that you have a dive buddy in the manner in which it was intended.

Phew. Was that a SOAPBOX or what?

Sorry, didn't mean to seem preachy on my first post.

I guess I know of one too many women that couldn't save their husbands (not necessarily in the sport of diving) because they didn't know how to operate the boat, didn't know how to pull the trailer, blahblahblah. A partnership to me is not a dependency for basic survival by one person.

Sorry, preached again. Posting now.

 

[smw]

It's been a while since I've been to the Scubaboard... went diving in Cabo, came back and everything hit the fan at work - now six weeks later I see this post still going. It goes to show how important this question is.

I think fundamentally that independent women want other women to exercise their independence.

I get really frustrated with the fact that I worked REALLY hard in my life to bust sterotypes and find that there are still a whole host of women who are willing to be submissive. But then I think - well isn't that why I did what I did? So that others can make their own choices?

If that's how those women want to be - fine. But they won't be diving with me. If the guy ends up croaking because he's willing to dive with a woman that can't or wouldn't be able to function without him - whose fault is that?

One of the things that I miss about being single is my guy friends. It's taken years, but I now have a circle of female friends that are like me. (Funny how they all drive pickups - and no, none of them are gay, not that that would matter in the least anyway.)

So maybe us women have done all that we can do to liberate our sex. Maybe now men need to catch up and realize that they can't expect a codependent woman to save their butts. Ya can't have it both ways!

So men - liberate thyselves! Expect that your SO to bring home the bacon and be your true buddy! Oh, BTW - that means you'll need to do some laundry and dishes.:shocked2:

 

[Soakedlontra]

It happened again. I still do not keep track of my time and depth very well. I still leave it up to him, my buddy. Perhaps part of the problem is that he has a computer and I do rely on more 'primitive' gadgets to keep track of pressure, depth and time. Knowing that the computer will allow me more bottom time I wait for him to let me know when it is time to go back.

During my first night dive I also relied on him to find our way back with the compass. At the end of the dive I got mad because we terminated the dive too soon (even if we agreed to turn at 1/3 of my air, something that I had totally forgotten). I still had more than 1,000 PSI (usually I run out of air before we run out of time) and I felt disappointed so he agreed to descend again and hung around nearer to shore.

Later on I understood the importance of sticking to the dive plan and getting my act more together. I guess for now I take these 'liberties' because I keep testing different gear and I am not settled down with my own and there are so many things to deal with at once etc...Well it sounds like a silly excuse...

 

[Thalassamania]

I guess it comes from teaching in a university environment, but we all dive alike ... male and female, our codependency is called buddy diving.

 

[gNats]

<snip>I guess for now I take these 'liberties' because I keep testing different gear and I am not settled down with my own and there are so many things to deal with at once etc...Well it sounds like a silly excuse...</snip>

I am a new diver - just certified at the beginning of September. If I may share my experience - throughout September and even in October (brrrr) I am planning specific dives where I have no interest in sightseeing, but mainly to work on skills. Now, I know I am a bad girl. I have been on two afternoon dives by myself. I snorkel to the training platform, follow the anchor line to the 20' deep platform and work by myself. I realize, this is a no-no. But, I don't have a dedicated buddy, and my purpose is to work on a skill. So, I do everything methodical and think think think.

But, enough of my breaking the rules.

Here is my true point: If you are testing out a new piece of dive equipment, then dive with that purpose and only that purpose in mind. One of my new dives was to play with my new Suunto Cobra Computer and Compass (tethered, not wireless). I wanted to make sure I could understand the button, bells, and whistles down below. I sat on that platform for 30 minutes at 20' synching through the computer. Before going down, I had studied my manual and was prepared to find certain settings that I know I would need while diving in a group. I am fortunate to have 3 training platforms clustered togethered, so I worked on my navigation skills by swiming from one to another.

I practiced computer acents and decents, monitoring the readings on the computer to inform me if I was going too fast.

After completing 3 dives that afternoon, I now feel 100% proficient in the use and readings of my new computer.

On other occassions, I have worked on doing nothing more than dialing in my boyancy.

They are boring dives. One several occassions I did have a buddy and all he did was sit on the platform and watch me. A few times we swam off to 40' depths only to have my practice a deeper acent to the platform and use the computer to do a safety stop.

My advice would be to take the "sightseeing" out of the dive and work on developing a particular skill during the dive. You will gain far more insight into your own diving skills and will shorten the learning curve.

I COMPLETELY agree with you - there are far too many things to think about as a new diver. By doing skill only dives, I am able to dedicate the attention to that one skill and it can become "second nature".

My other suggestion would be to ask your buddy to let you drive on a dive. If he has the fancy scmancy computer, ask him to teach you how to use it, swap computers, agree on the particulars of your dive, and you take responsibility. He can also review the computer to confirm for himself. During my OW dives, my instructor was always reading my computer.

Well, just my two cents and how I overcame the "too much to remember all at once" problem.

 

[Soakedlontra]

<snip>I guess for now I take these 'liberties' because I keep testing different gear and I am not settled down with my own and there are so many things to deal with at once etc...Well it sounds like a silly excuse...</snip>

I am a new diver - just certified at the beginning of September. If I may share my experience - throughout September and even in October (brrrr) I am planning specific dives where I have no interest in sightseeing, but mainly to work on skills. Now, I know I am a bad girl. I have been on two afternoon dives by myself. I snorkel to the training platform, follow the anchor line to the 20' deep platform and work by myself. I realize, this is a no-no. But, I don't have a dedicated buddy, and my purpose is to work on a skill. So, I do everything methodical and think think think.

But, enough of my breaking the rules.

I was wandering about that myself...Can solo-dive-training ever be justified?

It is really tempting to sneak out to an easy dive site with my gear without telling my buddy about it...I suspect that he would get really mad at me! How did you manage to get air in the first place? Did you lie to your local dive shop when you went to pick up your tanks or are they folks who never ask questions?

[/QUOTE]Here is my true point: If you are testing out a new piece of dive equipment, then dive with that purpose and only that purpose in mind. One of my new dives was to play with my new Suunto Cobra Computer and Compass (tethered, not wireless). I wanted to make sure I could understand the button, bells, and whistles down below. I sat on that platform for 30 minutes at 20' synching through the computer. Before going down, I had studied my manual and was prepared to find certain settings that I know I would need while diving in a group. I am fortunate to have 3 training platforms clustered togethered, so I worked on my navigation skills by swiming from one to another.

I practiced computer acents and decents, monitoring the readings on the computer to inform me if I was going too fast.

After completing 3 dives that afternoon, I now feel 100% proficient in the use and readings of my new computer.[/QUOTE]

How do you like your Suunto Cobra Computer and Compass? I have to decide what kind of computer, compass and gauges to get. My buddy has a Suunto Gekko.
I have began to familiarize myself with his computer and read the manual once during a night when I could not sleep. We talked about me using his computer and being the dive leader under his supervision but we haven't done it yet. I used his compass and did some navigation twice.
We definitively need to do more and I have to read again his computer manual and try it in the water until I can use it right and learn more about navigation somehow.


[/QUOTE]My advice would be to take the "sightseeing" out of the dive and work on developing a particular skill during the dive. You will gain far more insight into your own diving skills and will shorten the learning curve.

I COMPLETELY agree with you - there are far too many things to think about as a new diver. By doing skill only dives, I am able to dedicate the attention to that one skill and it can become "second nature".

My other suggestion would be to ask your buddy to let you drive on a dive. If he has the fancy scmancy computer, ask him to teach you how to use it, swap computers, agree on the particulars of your dive, and you take responsibility. He can also review the computer to confirm for himself. During my OW dives, my instructor was always reading my computer.

Well, just my two cents and how I overcame the "too much to remember all at once" problem.[/QUOTE]

On a regular basis we dedicate one dive to practice skills and if there is time left we end the dive exploring the surroundings and/or taking pictures. We need to do it more often, though and I need to be more focused instead of getting impatient and letting the excitement of sightseeing take over.

Happy diving

(PS The breaking up of your post gNats with separate quotes did not work)

 

[Sas]

(PS The breaking up of your post gNats with separate quotes did not work)

Offtopic:

To do multiple quotes do the following (I am using {} instead of [] to show you but use [] brackets when you do it yourself). To put someone's name, do ="theirname" in the first tag.

{quote="Soakedlontra"} blah blah blah {/quote}

blah blah blah

{quote="anotherperson"} blah blah blah {/quote}

blah blah blah blah

This becomes

blah blah blah

blah blah blah

blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah

Hope that helps!

 

[gNats]

I hope I did this reply correctly

I was wandering about that myself...Can solo-dive-training ever be justified?

It is really tempting to sneak out to an easy dive site with my gear without telling my buddy about it...I suspect that he would get really mad at me! How did you manage to get air in the first place? Did you lie to your local dive shop when you went to pick up your tanks or are they folks who never ask questions?

I have to believe that in Michigan, and the quarries I go to in Ohio, there are no 'laws' regarding solo-diving. When I take my tank to either location I need to present my C-Card, but I have never been directly questioned at the quarry regarding my buddy. At my LDS, I had spoken about diving solo to practice on the platform, and that owner offered to hook me up with other newbies who are diving to fine tune skills. While at the quarries, I have been approached by other divers and invited to dive with them, but when I explained my sole purpose was to push computer buttons, they did not press the issue.

Frankly, I know an emergency can happen in even 20' of water. I would never do this in a dive location I didn't know very well or if the conditions were not at my most optimum. If you can hook up with another newbie who wants to sit on the platform and practice her own skills, you would be much better off.

And, realize that a proper solo diver has a spare air. So, I never call myself a solo diver. I say I am buddy-less. LOL. Stupid symantics, but I wouldn't want to insult those who dive solo with proper gear and training.

How do you like your Suunto Cobra Computer and Compass? I have to decide what kind of computer, compass and gauges to get. My buddy has a Suunto Gekko.
I have began to familiarize myself with his computer and read the manual once during a night when I could not sleep. We talked about me using his computer and being the dive leader under his supervision but we haven't done it yet. I used his compass and did some navigation twice.
We definitively need to do more and I have to read again his computer manual and try it in the water until I can use it right and learn more about navigation somehow.

I LOVE MY SUUNTO. I took my OW classes using the D-9 wrist computer. Very cool piece of technology, loved the bells and whistles, but the face of the computer was very small and very hard to read. I gave that back to its rightful owner and bought the Cobra.

Here is my research: The Gekko is very similar to the Cobra. The biggest difference (other than a few $$$), was the PC-download. The Gekko does not seemlessly connect to the Suunto Dive Manager software. Being a computer geek, it was important to me to download my dives to a laptop.

I love the ease to use, the clarity of the display module, and the preference settings. Same with the compass. It is very easy to read and is as stable as possible under the conditions.

The Cobra II has a few more bells and whistles, but it is even more $$$ than the Cobra and has the electronic compass. The D-9 had the same compass, and it was incredibly hard to read and use. My advice would be to save the money on the Cobra II and opt for the Cobra with analog compass.

I didn't start to "get" the Cobra until after the first dive. Of course, mine was new so I didn't have any dives in the history. But, I had to first play, then read the manual, then compare the computer against the manual and then dive again.

The manual was written pretty technical, and you have to hunt and peck for the right graphics, but once it starts to click a bit, it all falls into place.

If you like the Gekko, but want the PC download ability, you will really like the Cobra. If you don't need the PC download, then the Gekko is a great computer. About $200-$300 dollars less than the Cobra.

I hope this helps. Happy diving and good luck as lead diver.

 

[drbill]

I've met a lot of woman divers who are in this sport only because of HIM. If he stops scuba diving, she can walk away, no problem.

I had absolutely no idea that Christ was such a factor in getting women to dive!

Seriously, this is an issue that concerns me, of course. I've met a number of women who say that they are divers, but they only submerge once or twice a year on trips. Understandable if they have real jobs or live isolated from good diving locations. I've also met several who claimed to be divers just because they were certified ten years ago but haven't dived in ages. I've also met a few who said they'd learn to dive to be with me (yes, I know... an extreme rarity).

I've been looking (forever) for a woman who has a true passion for diving. The last thing I'd want her to do is dive because of me. Of course I also want her to be intelligent, drop dead gorgeous and have a substantial trust fund. I guess that explains why I've never experienced co-dependency and dive solo.