Why are so many female divers codependent?

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I just look at it as simple as this. A woman is capable of doing anything a guy can so if she chooses to be dependent I respect that because its her choice. If she chooses independency I also respect it for it is her choice.

So to all out there happy diving !
 
I don't understand how any diver, let alone a dive master can respect any "dependent" diver. Isn't the ability to take care of oneself a prerequisite of the Buddy System? Perhaps you are using some special definition of "dependency" which removes all meaning? I sincerely doubt that someone who is capable of doing the minimum requirements of self-suficiency but simply "chooses" not to do so is actually capable. What about the benefits of repition on traning and skills maintanance?
 
I don't understand how any diver, let alone a dive master can respect any "dependent" diver. Isn't the ability to take care of oneself a prerequisite of the Buddy System? Perhaps you are using some special definition of "dependency" which removes all meaning? I sincerely doubt that someone who is capable of doing the minimum requirements of self-suficiency but simply "chooses" not to do so is actually capable. What about the benefits of repition on traning and skills maintanance?
I gotta go with Michael on this one...if you "choose" to be dependent on your buddy, you will probably only ever have that one dive buddy that you started out with. I know I certainly would not choose to dive with someone that plans to rely solely on me versus feeling the need to improve upon their own skills in the water. Every time I get in the water, regardless of whether for training or recreation, I make a point to work on something that I feel can use improvement...whether it's my buoyancy, air consumption, nav, or just something basic such as mask removal because that is the one stumbling block I had way back when I took my first OW class, so now I always remove/replace my mask on every dive...I refuse to be the one to panic should a situation ever arise, god forbid...and the only way for that to happen is to become more confident (not to be confused with cocky), in yourself, more comfortable underwater, and subsequently more capable of dealing with a potential situation. Accidents happen to even the most experienced of divers...what happens if that person is your dive buddy and the tables are now turned?

I could care less who carries your gear, the stuff is heavy, but going in the water should be a "team" of two each equally capable of assisting the other as needed.
 
ARRRGGGHHHH!! Great thread!

I love watching activity on dive boats. When a guy hesitates or stumbles a little, usually nobody comes to "help him" unless he asks. He is permitted a learning curb where "helpless" women are typically not.

Often whenever a guy has an excuse to be "helpful" to a women (especially an attractive women in a bathing suit) he takes it (nothing personal guys). He feels useful and appreciated but she is never given the opportunity to become empowered by figuring things out for her self - thus a loop of helplessness starts and continues.

Even the most "helpless" women will probably work gear out if only the guys step back. I've seen it many times and in many sports. It's not about the guy "letting her do her own gear" it's about her just doing it and him letting go of his attachment to (letting or not letting).

The mechanical ability needed to assemble most basic SCUBA gear is extremely simple-yet my experience in SE Asia is that DM's always try to take over. It's flat out annoying. I love the idea of dividing partners in a SCUBA class! The process of participating in all aspects of the dive in my opinion builds a more confident diver.

I wonder if dependant women are diving to keep their husband company. If the partnership split- would the women keep diving? Was it her original idea? Think those of us who choose to SCUBA on our own, are independent. Have seen many, many independent women divers! It's awesome!

I am one of those radically independent gals - 12 years of rock climbing. Soloing 1,000 ft, 3 night vertical cliffs alone, joining an equal partner for 3,000 ft, 10 days climbing and 9 nights sleeping on the same cliff, women partners, etc. When my scuba instructor insisted on "helping" me and not helping my husband, I was entirely annoyed. Told him to piss off & managed the tanks & gear just fine.

Truthfully my husband would love it if I were the dependant type - but the costume doesn't fit-at all. So I find it more rewarding to travel/dive alone & find partners along the way. Now I have much more experience than him and would probably need to care for him if we ever dive together.

I feel much more secure relying on my own skills, rather than depending on someone else’s skills to guide me (which I think is entirely crazy). What if something happens to my guide or to his gear - then what to do?

And yes, I do enjoying carrying my own tanks & cleaning my own gear and would probably enjoy learning how to service it as well. To me it's all part of owing my dive.
 
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I hope its ok for men to post here as I have only read just a few threads. I’ve seen this thread pop up occasionally and took a stab here or there to read, but usually always backed away as labeling women as co-dependent is not my cup of tea.

While I would love to know I always felt “needed” it’s not what I’m looking for in a companion. Oddly enough with me is quite the opposite. The women of my choice would be one who I know could support herself, my children etc. just as well in my absence should something happen to me. Too often in life I feel spouses have fallen dependent upon males and is sometimes left with bitter realities of life afterweards. I hold the same values when I pick my dive companions.


How does this have anything to do with diving? Allot actually. I dive recreational, technical and oftentimes solo and feel I’m a competent diver to meet my own needs. True I’m overweight, aging, need a tug here and there on my dry suit, but for the most part I feel comfortable with taking care of things myself. I expect the same with my dive companions; I guess this is from being independent of any form of umbrella for the last 20 years. I’m divorced now, and until I find the one where the gut tells me to make a move, will continue to live life alone – my choice.


As a child growing up on our family farm, it was expected of me to greet family and guest with a firm handshake, and a sir or ma’am, anything less was simply unacceptable. Growing up, till the very day I placed my mom in the ground did I witness my dad and grandfather alike before he passed by showing respect to the females gender. Never was a time did my dad not first open the car door for my mom, or leave the house first w/o a greeting / going kiss. Dare I as a child, or teenager enter or leave my home w/o taking the time to give acknowledgement to my mother.


My purpose to this story is to convey my upbringing on how to respect the female companions I would later be associated with in life with. To this very day for family, friends, and occasionally if I’m lucky a date do I take the time to walk the steps of my father and first open the door, or pull the chair for the ladies. Does this mean I think they are not capable of sitting their toosh down w/o my help? Not even close – it’s a matter of having respect period!


My lifestyle carries over to my diving. We are taught from day one of our first open water class to be a good diving buddy. True are some of the remarks that many men are quick to act for a pretty gal appearing as if she needed help – and many more who don’t. I guess I’ve even done it on several occasions myself where I failed to offer the same amount of courtesy to my male buddies. I guess sometimes you’re just on your own. However for the most part I try to accommodate both as much as I can without overstepping and making them feel lesser of a person than I am.


Now, on the other hand, I do feel bad sometimes when I see divers fumbling around with dive gear, or struggling to complete the simplest task. Perhaps they are just having a bad day, or are using unfamiliar dive gear – either ways sometimes I’m reluctant to jump right in. Why? Well for one I want to know again; like my statement above that my partner is able to take somewhat care of themselves in a time of my absence if needed. How would they handle an emergency underwater if something were to happen to me? Would my emergency cause twice the problems by them not being able to mitigate the emergency for themselves? I use an example of a recent cave death as tragic as it may be of one diver who experienced a catastrophic emergency ending in a drowning deep in cave territory. I want to know 100% w/o hesitation that my dive buddy is completely competent to exit if needed with having to leave me behind in a timely a safe manner as to not cause further loss of life.


Now I kind of have to side step here for a moment. As many technical divers have experienced, while trying to achieve my goals have acquired rather a large amount of dive gear. To date I’m embarrassingly gotten several thousand dollars of hard-earned money invested which I care not see damaged by a inexperienced diver who has not been taught proper gear techniques. I’m very-very anal retentive about how my gear is treated. So with that said, sometimes I do tend to offer more assistance to some than others. I suppose it’s just what kind of mood I’m in for the day, but for the more experienced crowd, I expect to only have to point to where I have the gear stored, and when the dive is completed not having to worry about policing the gear I loaned them. By then I’m usually hot, tired, exhausted from carrying stages, scooters, deco cylinders etc. and really not interested in going behind to clean their mess. I would expect any diver using my gear to prep, use, clean and store every piece of my gear as if it is their own. While I’m always there for my buddies, I don’t wish to have to hold their hand every step of the way. When you need training wheels I will be there for you every step, but when you have been winged from the bosoms, it’s time to act accordingly – male and female alike!


My whole point in this book between running 911 calls tonight is to say to please don’t be offended if I offer to you my help. Perhaps I see your being tasked loaded in a way to cause you to be stressed to the point where I see a safety issue. I will always ask first, and then act accordingly if needed. If it’s not a safety issue, I may suggest and alternative way or just let you learn the tricks by the seat of your pants. It could be that I just want to make your dive more enjoyable by helping to assist you in lifting the 90lb set of doubles from the ground level – Lord knows my 100lb set kicks my tail. Diving is meant to be fun, and when we take the fun element out of it, people start to get hurt.


In closing I will always strive to be a good diving companion to help my female buddies out. Sometimes I may act too fatherish, but in the end it is because I want OUR dives to be carried out safely, and for all involved to surface and say to themselves – damn what a great dive that was.


Safe diving,


Kenny
 
There are different levels of codependency, as I've observed on dive trips. And being kind of a self-sufficient female myself, I tend to notice this.

So a woman wants someone to put her gear together and haul it down to the water for her. The question in my mind is, "At what point does she take responsibility for the dive, if ever?" Not something I'm personally comfortable with in a buddy--they need to own more of the dive than that.
 
... To this very day for family, friends, and occasionally if I’m lucky a date do I take the time to walk the steps of my father and first open the door, or pull the chair for the ladies. Does this mean I think they are not capable of sitting their toosh down w/o my help? Not even close – it’s a matter of having respect period!...


...In closing I will always strive to be a good diving companion to help my female buddies out. Sometimes I may act too fatherish, but in the end it is because I want OUR dives to be carried out safely, and for all involved to surface and say to themselves – damn what a great dive that was...

Kenny,
As a woman, I appreciate your chivalry. I'm a VERY independent woman. But do appreciate being respected, as well. Spread your values, Kenny. There are a lot of men who could use it.

Re: being codependent - - you know it CAN go both ways. Some men can be very co-dependent upon women. Frankly, I think codependency speaks to a bigger issue - - insecurity.

Diving is a sport where one must rely on themselves first before they can be a good buddy to anyone. At least that's my humble opinion

Joy
:scubadive:
 
Re: being codependent - - you know it CAN go both ways. Some men can be very co-dependent upon women. Frankly, I think codependency speaks to a bigger issue - - insecurity.

Something I really didn't think of, and your so very right.

Diving is a sport where one must rely on themselves first before they can be a good buddy to anyone. At least that's my humble opinion

You're spot on with this.

Joy
:scubadive:

Thank you for your reply.

Kenny
 
My whole point in this book between running 911 calls tonight is to say to please don’t be offended if I offer to you my help. Perhaps I see your being tasked loaded in a way to cause you to be stressed to the point where I see a safety issue. I will always ask first, and then act accordingly if needed. If it’s not a safety issue, I may suggest and alternative way or just let you learn the tricks by the seat of your pants. It could be that I just want to make your dive more enjoyable by helping to assist you in lifting the 90lb set of doubles from the ground level – Lord knows my 100lb set kicks my tail. Diving is meant to be fun, and when we take the fun element out of it, people start to get hurt.

You seem like a sweet guy Kenny. I'd deffinately thank you if you helped out with 100lb tanks ;-) (but I don't think that's a gender thing). It's also sweet when someone pulls out a chair or holds a door, respectful rather than enabling.

There is a big difference between being gender-blind in one's kindness or helping out a partner man/woman in need, vs. enabling a woman by taking over simple tasks that she could easily complete.

In a car, one person drives. While diving, both should have a steering wheel. When the man (or a more experienced person) claims leadership-often the women or less experienced person turns off their "responsibility switch" much like a passenger often turns off their "navigation switch." The dynamics which lead to dependency are often much subtler than most men think and certainly diving is only a reflection of other relationship dynamics.

I think a great gift to give a woman with dependant tendencies is to teach her to become independent and empowered within the context of a "dangerous" sport! Society often subtly conspires to teach the opposite.

It starts with simple things, like who drove or navigated to the dive site? Who researched and purchased the gear? Who is the leader?

Just my 2 cents!
 

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