Who's your Favorite BP/W Manufacturer

[divad]

To discount the products and service and assign success based only on a presense is an unproven leap.Tobin

I can't find where anyone beside you made that leap. Maybe I missed it.

 

[cool_hardware52]

You can also use our new Sausage Weight Pocket that fits in the spine of the plate. It adds approx 4 pounds to the plate.

That should work fine, much like the DiveRite Harness Weight Sausage.

As an alternative for those diving doubles: Just place soft weights between the wing and the backplate. The band bolts will keep the soft weights from escaping "UP or "Down"

The wing keeps the weights from passing between the tanks. Pressure from the backplate keeps them in place.

It's a zero $$ fix if you own the soft weights.


Tobin

 

[Patrick]

Accounting is my least favorite task, but I just had to run some numbers for my insurance broker. My sales have been rising every month, I know I scramble to keep up with production. We sell pretty much everything I can make. I have no real means of measuring if it's word of mouth, exposure on the Internet, paid print advertizing, consumer shows, trade shows etc. Half of all promotional efforts work and it's very hard to tell which half.

I do not use accounting to determine it, there are easier methods. My point is that being on the board generates sales and web site activity.

I carry large inventories and in every case except the Extreme Series, our production runs are large. At one time, I had over 2000 wings in inventory. For a company my size, that is quite large.

I am a bit surprised that someone willing to state: Would not exploit a proven means of promotion.

I thought that I was clear in my posting that it is does generate sales. Only a very small amount of our sales are generated via lists.

I've never argued that exposure on SB was not helpful. What I take exception to is the assignment of motive. You may not believe it, but I was asked to add my website info, because people were having trouble finding DEEPSEASUPPLY.com, there was some confusion about DSS vs "Tobin's" vs DeepSee etc. How does it serve my customers to make it less convenient to find the information they want?

OK, then we can agree it is advertising. Our customers already know our web site, it is the potential customers that do not and that is why I use a signature.

I've never disagreed, but a "Presence" without quality products and service would not work for very long. To discount the products and service and assign success based only on a presense is an unproven leap.

I also think having a presence allows the mfg to persuade the customer in his direction or point of view. For the most part of two years, no ther mfgs really challenged you. Most of the times I have come on the list is because someone contacted me and suggested that I join the thread.

SB is not Tech Diver, civility is encouraged here.

I agree. However, Techdiver was a good vehicle of communication at the time. If someone posted something wrong or dangerous, they were pounded into the ground.
These were the days when PADI did not support Nitrox and the Tech Show was held prior to DEMA.

A number of people on that list were opinionated and most had significant diving experience. On SB, someone can give out wrong information and it is not even noticed.

Time is at a premium for me too, but staying connected with my customers has to be a priority.

That would support the thought of why you are on the lists so often. Most other companies sales are not a result of being on the lists. Hence, the results of the ongoing poll.

Good, as I said in the very first thread I encountered you on here on SB almost a year ago....

I joined the list in 2001 and you joined in 2004 (around trhe same time you got into the diving business). I recall seeing your first few posts to the list as well.

The beauty of SB is the range of ideas, experiences, expertise etc. It's a huge collective of ideas. More won't hurt.

I do not disagree. However, most of the experienced divers frequent and post on lists other than SB. A large majority of the questions asked on this list are often quite basic.

Regards,

Patrick
---
OxyCheq
http://oxycheq.com]

 

[Patrick]

That's not how my fundies instructor carried his SMB. It was in his thigh pocket. It's not uncommon for people to find, even with steeply bent plates, that storage of a Lift Bag in a plate pocket is problematic. Some divers certainly do use the plate pad / pocket, and careful packing of the inflatable can help, but many find the bungee's across the bottom of the plate a more workable solution.

The bungees also offer the possiblity of being able to restow the inflatable, handy if you are doing drills or have to exit via the surf.


Tobin

Is he also the instructor that told you to tighten your Hog Harness so tight that it does not shift enough to reach the valve on a single tank?

I don't care where anyone puts a lift bag or SMB, but a Hog Harness should not be that tight and not being able to reach a single tank valve is not a good reason to switch to doubles.

We also have a lift bag pocket that is stored on the bottom of the plate. However, it is being redesigned at present.

Regards,

Patrick
---
OxyCheq
http://oxycheq.com

 

[Patrick]

That should work fine, much like the DiveRite Harness Weight Sausage.

As an alternative for those diving doubles: Just place soft weights between the wing and the backplate. The band bolts will keep the soft weights from escaping "UP or "Down"

The wing keeps the weights from passing between the tanks. Pressure from the backplate keeps them in place.

It's a zero $$ fix if you own the soft weights.


Tobin

I think DR soft weight attach to the back of the plate. Mine attach in the spine.

I am also working on another alternative weight for the back of the plate. More on that after the move.

Another option is to use bullet weights on the sides of the cam straps.

Regards,

Patrick
---
OxyCheq
http://oxycheq.com

 

[cool_hardware52]

I do not use accounting to determine it, there are easier methods. My point is that being on the board generates sales and web site activity.

I'm sure you are correct, but actually quantifying it would seem difficult, or impossible.

I carry large inventories and in every case except the Extreme Series, our production runs are large. At one time, I had over 2000 wings in inventory. For a company my size, that is quite large.

Not sure I see your point. We maintain modest inventories, but can make more of everything we sell within a short period, often just days. In my experience that's almost unknown in the dive business. Is it better, or cheaper, or just more fun to do it that way? That's a debate for another thread.

I thought that I was clear in my posting that it is does generate sales.

Not sure I see your point here either. When did I ever say that a web presense had no effect on sales?

OK, then we can agree it is advertising. Our customers already know our web site, it is the potential customers that do not and that is why I use a signature.

Again, I've never said it was not advertising. What I take exception to is the accusation that I only participate for the advertising. That's simply not true.

I also think having a presence allows the mfg to persuade the customer in his direction or point of view.

What exactly is the "direction" I'm trying to presuade people into, other than BP&W's are a good way to dive, and you should select a wing that's appropriate for the task? The vast majority of my posts say nothing about DSS. That's been pretty well documented earlier in this thread. How do I advance my "position" or "direction" without mentioning specfically how my goods differ?

For the most part of two years, no ther mfgs really challenged you. Most of the times I have come on the list is because someone contacted me and suggested that I join the thread.

What exactly have I said that needs challenging? I don't slam other gear, I answer questions about my gear, and attempt to correct misinformation. If some one has a question about wing selection I'm well equipped to answer it. If someone wants to debate deco algorithims or the benefits of He in the deco mix, I'll keep my mouth shut, I'm not qualified.

Good, as I said in the very first thread I encountered you on here on SB almost a year ago....

I joined the list in 2001 and you joined in 2004 (around trhe same time you got into the diving business). I recall seeing your first few posts to the list as well.

Pat I said nothing about who was first, just noted when I first saw you post.

The beauty of SB is the range of ideas, experiences, expertise etc. It's a huge collective of ideas. More won't hurt.

I do not disagree. However, most of the experienced divers frequent and post on lists other than SB. A large majority of the questions asked on this list are often quite basic.

Yes the questions often are very basic, scary even. In my view that makes it even more important that good useable answers are provided, without the attitude that pervades some other venues.


Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

Is he also the instructor that told you to tighten your Hog Harness so tight that it does not shift enough to reach the valve on a single tank?

I've never said I could not reach all my valve(s) with my harness properly adjusted.

Perhaps the GUE allows a sloppy harness for singles, but I really don't know, all my instruction was done in doubles.

The GUE does advocate a snug harness, "be one with your backplate" Having your tank(s) positioned so you can reach the valve(s) is consistent with my understanding of the GUE's guidelines. A sloppy harness would, in my opinion, be inconsistent. A low profile plate can assist with valve access.

(If I've misunderstood the GUE guidelines I'm sure others here more qualified can provide more information.)

Don't know about you, but I'm busy during a valve drill. I have uses for my "other" hand besides humping up my tank, like signaling my teammates.

I don't care where anyone puts a lift bag or SMB, but a Hog Harness should not be that tight and not being able to reach a single tank valve is not a good reason to switch to doubles.

I agree. But the fact remains it's easier to reach the valves on doubles. No great surprise, the tanks are much closer to the diver when diving doubles vs singles.

We also have a lift bag pocket that is stored on the bottom of the plate. However, it is being redesigned at present.

A pocket or $1.50 worth of bungee, either should work fine.


Tobin

 

[The Kraken]

Well, needless to say that I'm not playing in the same league as you two guys, but when I make a plate I ask the person for whom I'm making it if they'll be diving single tank only, or singles and doubles.

Diving a back plated designed to acommodate doubles DOES set the tank valve further away from the divers back than does a plate made specifically for diving a single tank.

One advantage a conventional BC has over the conventional backplate is that it makes it easier for the diver to reach the valve of her/his tank.

the K

 

[Jim Lapenta]

One thing about all of this is that based on the number of people on at any one time it seems that alot of recreational divers are using, have switched to, or are switching to BPW. LDS's should take notice of this. I'm trying like hell to get my boss to push em more but it's tough. The majors are still producing jackets and pushing them. Some of the deals they offer and others have terms for their dealers that are so restrictive that it makes it difficult to carry the additional lines. The only way it's going to change is for divers to demand the change. Until then they'll be like me and have both set ups or start with a jacket and think that's it. Many of the people I dive with cannot afford two set ups even with the great prices on BPW's available from DSS, Oxycheq, Golem Gear etc. I'm fortunate in that I can. This again is due to the education that they get in the beginning. I use both for ow classes and checkouts. Anything above that is BPW and longhose only. And the questions are coming more and more. Just need to make that first initial sale or two in this area and I believe some big doors will be opened.

 

[Patrick]

Well, needless to say that I'm not playing in the same league as you two guys, but when I make a plate I ask the person for whom I'm making it if they'll be diving single tank only, or singles and doubles.

Diving a back plated designed to acommodate doubles DOES set the tank valve further away from the divers back than does a plate made specifically for diving a single tank.

One advantage a conventional BC has over the conventional backplate is that it makes it easier for the diver to reach the valve of her/his tank.

the K

Most of the plates on the market today were designed for the diver using doubles. The main advantage of using a standard plate with a single is you can remove less weight from the plate. Of course, this can be achieved via other methods.

The STAs were developed because divers that dove doubles wanted to use the same plate and harness for single cylinders.

The develoment of adding cam strap slots through the plate allowed the cylinder to go directly on the plate without a STA. It works, but usually results in some form of wobble.

In my opinion, if the plate requires anything more than the wing and Cam straps to attach a cylinder, it is a STA.

The main advantage of a plate for a single cylinder is generally less cost and less weight. I'll be addressing those issues early next year.

Regarding reaching the valves when using a plate/wing vs BC --- makes no differnce to me. Put your right hand under the cylinder, lift it up to your head, and turn the valve on or off. Under normal circumstances, the only time you really need to even do that with a single is to check it just prior to jumping in the water. Same procedure is used whether you are diving a plate/wing or BC.

Best regards,

Patrick
--
OxyCheq
http://oxycheq.com