Which Reg?

[Mark Vlahos]

too complex??? i love my poseidon and have access to a service center which has all the parts and servicing covered.

I was one of the people who sent Andy a PM.

I have a shop near me that sells Poseidon. Normal rates for regulator service is $25 per stage. If you purchased the regs from them then they cut the labor bill by 50%. For two first stages and two second stages the labor will cost $50 not $100. Poseidon does not offer the "free parts for life" service that many other manufacturers do offer. When I asked the shop what the parts bill should be on a "typical" tear down service, they indicated that $20 per stage would be about the cost for the parts that whould need replacing every time the reg is torn down. If any other parts need replacement the cost would be higher. Some educated guessing on my part places the parts cost for two first stages and two second stages at around $100 to $150 every other year. These costs are in addition to the labor costs. The shop did indicate that unless the Poseidons are showing signs of trouble a tear down would probably only be necessary every other year. If you add up the costs for service and place the parts at the $125 level then the maintenance costs are as follows.

Two first stages and two second stages (typical doubles rig)

Year 1 Labor only no tear down $50 First year parts FREE if needed
Year 2 Labor $50 Parts, probably at least $80 perhaps as high as $150, lets estimate $125

Total expected two year cycle $225 (as low as $180 to as high as $250)

A different shop near me sells the Aqualung line of regulators, this includes Apeks. This shop has an offer that if you purchase the regs from them the labor cost for service is $15 per stage. Aqualung does offer the "free parts for life" service so long as you are the original buyer and you get the regs serviced every year without skipping a year ever. If you miss one aniversary the parts will cost you from there on out. I think that parts that need replacing that are damaged due to abuse are not free, but for the purpose of this comparison I think it is reasonable to assume that only normal wear parts will need replacement at each service for at least the first several years. Lets examine the same two year costs.

Again, two first stages and two second stages (typical doubles rig)

Year 1 Labor $60 Parts FREE if needed
Year 2 Labor $60 Parts FREE if needed

Total expected two year cycle $120

The difference between the two totals is enough to get my attention. If you project these costs out 10 years the savings is significant. This makes the long term cost of ownership for an Aqualung, or Apeks regulator much lower than the Poseidon. This comparison does not even consider the initial purchase price of the regulator with the Poseidon Extreme coming in (at the shop mentioned above) at around $1500 for two sets including one long hose and one short hose. The shop that sells the Aqualung line has the Legend LX Supreme for around $1400 by the time you get hoses and DIN fittings, and they have the Apeks TX50 for around $1100, also with long and short hoses and a DIN fitting. Don't forget the prices above are for TWO first stages and TWO second stages with one 7 foot hose and one 22 inch hose.

None of this is cheap, but both Andy and I are looking for regulators that will perform well in caves. There are lots of brands out there that are worthy of consideration. The shop that sells Poseidon also sells Zeagle and they offer the same service labor cost deal, and the shop that sells Aqualung also sells Atomic, and their labor deal applies to Atomic regs as well.

There are lots of factors to consider. Initial price is certainly important, but labor will eat you alive if you keep the regs for several years. There are other shops in the area that offer better initial prices on these same regs but offer no savings on service. Buying regs on line is one way to keep the initial costs down, but it may cost more in the long run if you need to purchase parts for each service. I also would rather do business face to face on major equipment. The lower cost of service can be an important consideration. I have no problem paying a business for the things that are often considered intangible.

Mark Vlahos

 

[RIDIVER501]

if you had to choose from the above four regs as your primary, which one would
you choose?

any pro's/con's as to any of them would be appreciated

I am a big Poseidon fan but not impressed by the Odin or the Jetstream so I picked the Apeks

 

[Spoon]

I was one of the people who sent Andy a PM.

I have a shop near me that sells Poseidon. Normal rates for regulator service is $25 per stage. If you purchased the regs from them then they cut the labor bill by 50%. For two first stages and two second stages the labor will cost $50 not $100. Poseidon does not offer the "free parts for life" service that many other manufacturers do offer. When I asked the shop what the parts bill should be on a "typical" tear down service, they indicated that $20 per stage would be about the cost for the parts that whould need replacing every time the reg is torn down. If any other parts need replacement the cost would be higher. Some educated guessing on my part places the parts cost for two first stages and two second stages at around $100 to $150 every other year. These costs are in addition to the labor costs. The shop did indicate that unless the Poseidons are showing signs of trouble a tear down would probably only be necessary every other year. If you add up the costs for service and place the parts at the $125 level then the maintenance costs are as follows.

Two first stages and two second stages (typical doubles rig)

Year 1 Labor only no tear down $50 First year parts FREE if needed
Year 2 Labor $50 Parts, probably at least $80 perhaps as high as $150, lets estimate $125

Total expected two year cycle $225 (as low as $180 to as high as $250)

A different shop near me sells the Aqualung line of regulators, this includes Apeks. This shop has an offer that if you purchase the regs from them the labor cost for service is $15 per stage. Aqualung does offer the "free parts for life" service so long as you are the original buyer and you get the regs serviced every year without skipping a year ever. If you miss one aniversary the parts will cost you from there on out. I think that parts that need replacing that are damaged due to abuse are not free, but for the purpose of this comparison I think it is reasonable to assume that only normal wear parts will need replacement at each service for at least the first several years. Lets examine the same two year costs.

Again, two first stages and two second stages (typical doubles rig)

Year 1 Labor $60 Parts FREE if needed
Year 2 Labor $60 Parts FREE if needed

Total expected two year cycle $120

The difference between the two totals is enough to get my attention. If you project these costs out 10 years the savings is significant. This makes the long term cost of ownership for an Aqualung, or Apeks regulator much lower than the Poseidon. This comparison does not even consider the initial purchase price of the regulator with the Poseidon Extreme coming in (at the shop mentioned above) at around $1500 for two sets including one long hose and one short hose. The shop that sells the Aqualung line has the Legend LX Supreme for around $1400 by the time you get hoses and DIN fittings, and they have the Apeks TX50 for around $1100, also with long and short hoses and a DIN fitting. Don't forget the prices above are for TWO first stages and TWO second stages with one 7 foot hose and one 22 inch hose.

None of this is cheap, but both Andy and I are looking for regulators that will perform well in caves. There are lots of brands out there that are worthy of consideration. The shop that sells Poseidon also sells Zeagle and they offer the same service labor cost deal, and the shop that sells Aqualung also sells Atomic, and their labor deal applies to Atomic regs as well.

There are lots of factors to consider. Initial price is certainly important, but labor will eat you alive if you keep the regs for several years. There are other shops in the area that offer better initial prices on these same regs but offer no savings on service. Buying regs on line is one way to keep the initial costs down, but it may cost more in the long run if you need to purchase parts for each service. I also would rather do business face to face on major equipment. The lower cost of service can be an important consideration. I have no problem paying a business for the things that are often considered intangible.

Mark Vlahos

thank god i live in the philippines, servicing these things here are so cheap. my friend owns the local distributorship of poseidon and the labor is free. i will get the exact figures and post em here.

 

[Spoon]

I am a big Poseidon fan but not impressed by the Odin or the Jetstream so I picked the Apeks

i have the extreme and the black pearl. i gave one up and gave it to my girl. guess what i gave up??? the apeks

 

[Rick Murchison]

I currently own a non-adjustable micra+ and micra+ octo (yellow), these are paired with an SEA first stage. I think it breathes like butter but I am not sure how it would fare deep and in a cave.

My micras are older ones with SEA firsts - they breathe as easy at 200' as they do at the surface.

I have a spare SEA first stage and have at times put the spare first together with the other micra+ second for doubles. My concern is that the micra likes to free flow when shallow. Is the micra you talked about a standard micra or the micra adjustable.

Mine are standard - not even "+". I haven't had freeflow problems with 'em - but then I do my own maintenance.

What do you think of the SEA and micra+ pairing for back gas either in a cave or in the open ocean on a planned decompression dive.

Well, that's where I use 'em - so I reckon I'd say I think they're just dandy

I can't find any information on the flow rate of the SEA first stage, so I don't know how it would fare in a stressed situation at 150' on air or NITROX.

I'm assuming your SEAs have the oversized primary like mine do. They can deliver more gas than you could ever use at any depth under any work or stress load. In fact if there's any concern I have with the SEA it's that if I ever did have a full blown freeflow with one it'd blow through entirely too much gas during the few seconds it'd take me to shut it down.

My unanswered questions about the SEA first and the lack of an adjustment knob on my seconds makes me feel uneasy about taking these regs into a technical environment. Are you able to shed any light onto my situation?

I don't like adjustment knobs myself; don't buy them. My Legends are "straight" without adjustment knobs as are my Micras. I adjust my regs the way I like 'em on the bench. The Legends and Micras breathe "like butter" all the time...
Rick

 

[Scuba Tech]

No winner in this one! Thay all have good points, you could argue all day the pro's and con's and that would just be your opinion.
One thing you all missed, There is a clear looser in this pole!

The MK16/S550.

Very weak HP seat. (I would not buy or recomend this reg)
No 2nd stage spring adjustments.
Poorly designed 2nd stage case (problem on all 500/550/600's)

 

[Spoon]

No winner in this one! Thay all have good points, you could argue all day the pro's and con's and that would just be your opinion.
One thing you all missed, There is a clear looser in this pole!

The MK16/S550.

Very weak HP seat. (I would not buy or recomend this reg)
No 2nd stage spring adjustments.
Poorly designed 2nd stage case (problem on all 500/550/600's)

i agree, the newer scubapros seem more fragile than their older counterparts. its as if the parts were designed to be replaced every two years

 

[Mark Vlahos]

Thank you Rick,

Mark Vlahos

 

[Chris Sawallich]

Warm= scubapro, fantastic regs, Cold= apeks, I use the DS4- atx 50 pri. atx40 (just snagged from lil irish temper) occto. Mine breath dry all the time, I just used them pretty hard in 38o water in every position you can get into underwater. Its a plus that you can do a basic strip on them in the water with no tools.never had one let me down. Warm water? I just love that buttery smooth flow on a well tuned SP reg.

I have seen DBG40 flopping all over the place. Must be that boyancy thing. Light go up.. Heavy go down... Extra Cheesburger.. roll over and look like a turtle stuck on his back.

 

[Florabama]

atomic z1 ...... surprized ? ..... well built, breaths great, from a company that makes only top line stuff.

Its my understanding that the Atomic guys were with ScubaPro, and left to start a new company called Atomic. The regs that they build are fantastic, but are no better than the best ScubaPro has to offer. Scuba Diver mag always used to give both Scuba Pro's regs and Atomic their highest ratings, but something happened and SP got mad at ScubaDiver Mag and told them to stop rating their regs and withdrew all advertising. But Atomic's Titanium reg is as good as it gets.