Which is the most durable regulator?

[S. starfish]

We have conshelfs (not sure what number, but they have plastic 2nd stages) in our rental department that are at least 20 years old and still going strong, the only issue we're running into is that some of the poppets in the 2nd stages are starting to strip from being serviced so often.
The titan first stage has the same guts as the conshelf, just better hose routing.

 

[UncleJoes]

MARES Abyss!!!

this is IMHO the most bulletproof regulator out there. You have your choice of first stages, either the tried and true MR22 or the newer lighter (yet just as rugged) MR42.

These have been a cornerstone of the Mares line for years. Because they are diaphram regulators they don't allow water into the 1st stage for IP adjustment. Therefore, they can go much longer in between servicing. While you will need a few more tools to rebuild it it is a workhorse! Parts are extremely easy to find as unlike a few of the above these are still in production.

From the Mares website:
"Abyss gained its notoriety for reliability by setting many diving records, such as deep-solo-dive at -313m
and 101 divers breathing simultaneously for 40min from a single MR22 first stage. Firm tradition has evolved
thanks to the new engineering and design: more metal, more performance, more reliability. More Abyss."

Mares has other all metal regs but none like the Abyss.

 

[halocline]

Oh no, I can tell I'm about to start looking at double hose regs. Just what I need, another hobby. Okay, what's a good first double hose to get started with, in terms of cost, ease of rebuild, performance, etc? Aquamaster? Royal aquamaster?

 

[Nemrod]

If you're counting the "easy to find parts for" part of the OP that kind of knocks out the old double hosers.

Another vote for the MK5/R109. MK2 might last longer between rebuilds, and I guess the sherwoods are a very similar design; not quite as simple.

Well, you can get parts (for some double hosers) but your also right, double hose is a hobby within a sport/hobby. The OP said "most durable" but then in the post asked about the Sherwood. The folks who shot back with the twin hosers were being party poopers--me included---because clearly and in no uncertain terms, NO modern plastic single hose regulator will ever challenge them for durability. The plastic second stages tend to crack and even that aside the obsolesence cycle is only a few years beyond which getting parts become a problem. Nobody will be forming a "plastic" regulator club decades from now to dive, restore and cherish any of them and yet decades from now many double hose Aqua Masters will still be good to go. There simply is no comparison in durabilty, one was built to last a lifetime and the other only until something better or newer or such is on the LDS shelf to ooh and ah over.


Parts are easy to get for the current Conshelf and Titan LX regulators, Apecks also and ScubaPro. Any of those would be a good choice for a practical regulator but, most durable, sorry, no can do for any of them that have plastic major components.

Composite this and that, yeah, it has some advantages, mostly that it is cheap and inexpenisve to produce. I notice the composite bicycles are about 4 pounds lighter than my 1984 Pinarello, OK, but, will the carbon bike still be going 28 years from now and again, one was built in a mold with a computer and the other was hand built by a craftsman from STEEL and alloy, I know which one is more durable there too.

N

 

[herman]

Herman,
The Sherwood air bleed orifice was moved from the piston to the main body about 10 years ago. The small orifice is quickly removable with an allen wrench for cleaning or replacement. At least 5 years ago, Sherwood changed the filter on this removable unit from scintered to some type of foam. Last summer, after about 5 years and 300 dives, my g/f's Sherwood stopped bubbling. I popped it open. changed the foam filter and had her back in business in about 5 minutes. I probably should have flipped the seat, but it looked good, the IP was steady as a rock, and the reg was clean as a pin inside. But, I guess I'll have to do a complete rebuild one of these days. Also, when Sherwood went to the oval second, the inlet connection was reinforced, and cracking is not as much of a problem

So that is what that foam thing is.
Guess that goes to prove the point....or how old my Sherwoods are

 

[do it easy]

These have been a cornerstone of the Mares line for years. Because they are diaphram regulators they don't allow water into the 1st stage for IP adjustment. Therefore, they can go much longer in between servicing. While you will need a few more tools to rebuild it it is a workhorse! Parts are extremely easy to find as unlike a few of the above these are still in production.

You *could* service an Abyss with just wrenches, allen keys, and a 5.5 mm nut driver. The nut driver isn't in everyone's toolbox, but it is commercially available. The special tools make it easier, but they are not necessary.

 

[squidster]

MARES Abyss!!!

this is IMHO the most bulletproof regulator out there. You have your choice of first stages, either the tried and true MR22 or the newer lighter (yet just as rugged) MR42.

These have been a cornerstone of the Mares line for years. Because they are diaphram regulators they don't allow water into the 1st stage for IP adjustment. Therefore, they can go much longer in between servicing. While you will need a few more tools to rebuild it it is a workhorse! Parts are extremely easy to find as unlike a few of the above these are still in production.

From the Mares website:
"Abyss gained its notoriety for reliability by setting many diving records, such as deep-solo-dive at -313m
and 101 divers breathing simultaneously for 40min from a single MR22 first stage. Firm tradition has evolved
thanks to the new engineering and design: more metal, more performance, more reliability. More Abyss."

Mares has other all metal regs but none like the Abyss.

Scubapro And Aqualung Without question have been the leaders when it comes to keeping parts available for years down the road.
And far as service there is none better!
No regulator is more bullet proof then the Scubapro MK2 and Aqualung Conshelf!
Scubapro invented air2,and no other reg has been more copied then the MK10.
I know you love mares and they have good regs but me thinks you go just a little to far with the boast of being the best.
I would put the Scubapro MK17/G250V up against any Mares Product.
I dont think that Mares even Makes A balanced Second Stage Do They?
But i do think that ,that she dives gimmick should sell alot of product.

 

[Luis H]

Oh no, I can tell I'm about to start looking at double hose regs. Just what I need, another hobby. Okay, what's a good first double hose to get started with, in terms of cost, ease of rebuild, performance, etc? Aquamaster? Royal aquamaster?

The only difference between the Aqua Master and the Royal Aqua Master is that the Royal has a balanced first stage. The first stage can be replace and convert one into the other. The new Phoenix first stage converts either into a Royal Aqua Master with the addition of LP and HP pressure ports.

If you are interested on diving it with a pressure gauge, BC inflator, and octopus, I would recommend getting an Aqua Master and converting it to a Phoenix Royal Aqua Master. The Aqua Master’s go for a lot less money that the Royals and if you are going to replace the firsts stage anyway, it doesn’t make any sense to spend the extra money.

As a DIY, I truly believe that you would have fun playing and diving a double hose. They are easy and fun to service and diving them is also a great experience. Now that we have plenty of parts for them, I have a hard time going back to using one of my many single hose regulators.

All the internal parts for the Royal Aqua Master are the same as in most Aqua Lung regulators (Conshelf, Titan, and even the newest Mikron), so parts availability will not be an issue long after most newer regulator will be recycled into plastic soda bottles.

The reproduction silicon hoses, diaphragms, mouthpiece valves, and duckbill exhaust valves will also last several decades without deterioration with minimal care (don’t let your cat chew on your new silicon hoses)… not that the old ones didn’t do well for 4 decades…only the duckbills used to be a real issue in the past.

For more info you should go to VintageDoubleHose.com

The Conshelf and Titan first stages are Royal Aqua Master derivatives, therefore they have proven longevity track record.

There are many good durable regulators in production today, but if you want a long track record with proven durable designs you basically have Aqua Lung (formerly US Divers) followed closely by Scubapro.

I think it was Henry Ford who said: “You can’t build a reputation based on what you are planning on doing”…or something like that.

Sherwood has been around for a while and they have a good reputation, but they have had many design changes in the last 25 years. I don’t know an old Sherwood that holds any kind of following like a Scubapro Mk-5 / 109 or an AL Conshelf.


Oh, I didn’t mention the vintage Mistral because they only like tanks with 2500 psi or less, they have no intermediate pressure, and you can only add a pressure gauge with a banjo fitting. They are very likely the most reliable regulator due to their unmatched simplicity, but they probably would not fulfill today’s expectations.

 

[Gilldiver]

I would like to take this moment to tell you that Louis is the designer of the Phoenix nozzle and the improved mouth piece valves. There is no one on the planet that knows more about how these regs work.

I would also like to add that going to a double hose reg has brought me up in depth, for the past 25 years or so I have been mostly a deep wreck diver but since I started playing with the double hoses I have rediscovered the fun of diving up the water column and with my kids getting to an age where they want to do what dad does, I can't wait to start having fun with them in the 0 to 60 foot range.

By the way, once you get one you may not be able to stop. I have a Aqua Master with the Phoenix, a Mistral and DW all done, A Voit Polaris 50 ready for the chromer, a Royal Aqua Master that I need to rebuild, and a Dacor R-4. The R-4 will most likely never get in the water because compared to the others it just sucks.

Besides, do you know how many questions a you get with a double hose reg? Everyone wants to give it a try and the girls love the Mistral and early Aqua Masters with the bright Yellow Hoses!

 

[FDdiver]

I have a Brut from 1986 it still works great. It has never let me down.