What to do when an instructor is out of line?

[iztok]

AOW requires at least 25 dives, Rescue requires 25, and Master Diver 50. Doesn't Dive Master require 70? I am not familiar with PADI, but I am a DMC with SDI and I know those were the minimum requirements set before me.

PADI

AOW 9 dives minimum 4+5.

Rescue AOW + EFR + I think 2 OW and 2 Pool sessions. (There is more in the water short dives and on the surface work that most don't count as dive.)

MSD - Rescue + 5 specialties, 50 dives minimum.

DM - 60 min dives (but 20 to get started DM program) and Rescue diver.

 

[OldNSalty]

I finally learned that, if I raised my voice and swore a little, they actually figured out that I was mad about what had happened, and then they'd change their ways

I hear you. I used to think (and still do mostly) that an intelligent person need not swear or raise there voice to express themselves so when I went from an NCO to an officer I tried that approach for a bit. I found that dealing with riflemen required me to go straight back into NCO mode more often then not.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

AOW requires at least 25 dives, Rescue requires 25, and Master Diver 50. Doesn't Dive Master require 70? I am not familiar with PADI, but I am a DMC with SDI and I know those were the minimum requirements set before me.

Sometimes there are shop requirements and there are Agency Standards, and never the twain shall meet.

For PADI, Agency Standards are; AOW can start on the first dive after OW certification (4 logged required dives), Rescue requires 20 logged dives to participate in OW training and since other Agencies might certify Rescue earlier DM requires 20 logged dives to start training.

 

[scubamountaingirl]

well if this story is not a good example of why padi should start to teach team diving in a serious way , i dont know what is/ Your buddy is your lifeline and your theirs. if your diving with someone who is oblivious to your distress, then at the very very least your instructor should be attentive at all times to his students.

i dont care if you as a new diver did not follow a protocol that did not exist to begin with. you were in distress and that was all that mattered. You did the right thing, hang on the line, go to the surface / the point is that no one even missed you for how long? where were you ? you could have had a stroke and been on the bottom dead.

this is not your fault and i am so very sorry that you were abused. I know what that feels like.
and I hope that you will consider other all the good agencies out there that stress and teach you team diving .

with respect and i hope you will not give up on yourself
ww

 

[matsat64]

I think that the other side of the story is clear the DM should have never lost visual with either of his students and should have been aware that people have these problems. I do and everyone I dive with I inform them prior to the dive so events like this do not happen.
On the other hand you did exactly what I would have done, besides the fact after he called me a F$&in Idiot for the second time I would have basically broke his nose. There was no cause to talk to anyone right or wrong like that as for the debriefing , If I was the DM I would have wanted to know what happened so as it never happened agian.
What if you had a more serious problem? Lucky for you you did not. As someone said ask for a different DM or a refund for the course, or tell them to give it to the DM for the cost of his nose.

 

[Hotpuppy]

If you are going to have your credit card company do a charge back, remember you have a limited time to exercise that option, usually 60 days. Check with your CC company to be sure you don't exceed your time limit.

Ron

Yes, you have a limited time to dispute the quality of goods and services ..... for unreceived goods and services it is significantly longer.

 

[Hotpuppy]

I hear you. I used to think (and still do mostly) that an intelligent person need not swear or raise there voice to express themselves so when I went from an NCO to an officer I tried that approach for a bit. I found that dealing with riflemen required me to go straight back into NCO mode more often then not.

Swearing is okay. Public execution is not. Public execution causes people to entrench. It's a horrible management style and accomplishes nothing. It has no place in training.

What the F were you thinking? - that's oky.....

You F--- Idiot. - Not cool, and not professional.

Instructors are expected to be role models, have demonstration quality skills, be alert for problems, and anticipate potential problems before they happen. They should always err on the side of conservatism when planning and executing dives.

With practice my A-mode radar will get better when it comes to diving. A-Mode Radar is my internal process for detecting and avoiding A-Holes. Unfortunately, I have to run into a few of them before I'm able to fine tune the early warning signs.

It's often the little things that alert you to the "not right" attitude. The instructor was pretty proud of his DAN first aid kit and DAN mini-oxygen kit that he brought to the dive site. He was talking about them with another instructor and I was nearby so I asked a few questions. He acted like he was put out that I even knew what the stuff was. He resisted a bit when I looked in the oxygen kit. He got annoyed when I asked how big the cylinder was and how long it would last. It was a small cylinder that would last about 20 minutes. 20 minutes is fine, but you've got to be out of your mind if you think EMS is always 20 minutes away at Lake Travis or in Houston. Unless you tell 911 you have a dead diver they may mistake it as a minor incident and take their time to get there. Anyhow, that registered a "hmmmm not right" with me. He should have asked what I knew about them at which point I would have told him I was mostly done with DAN DEMP and had finished Hazardous Marine Life, O2 provider, and Advanced O2 provider. In short I elected to take DAN Demp because I think it's important to be well versed in first aid while diving. It helps me take better care of myself as well as my buddies. Anyhow, this instructor taught my EFR course and I distinctly remember a couple of offensive remarks in that class. "AED's are easy to use and we don't cover them in this course. If you want to use one you need to take the class" WTF? "We don't cover Oxygen, you can take the class if you want to learn about that." Excuse me? I just didn't consider those to be serious enough deviations to blacklist him from my training.

However, as they say, hindsight is 20/20 - even if you are picking shark teeth out of your ass.

 

[RJP]

"physical buoyancy reference"

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

well if this story is not a good example of why padi should start to teach team diving in a serious way , i dont know what is

There are plenty of PADI Instructors who follow PADI Standards with regards to buddy diving and teaching buddy diving. Any instructor who does not notice that one of his two Deep Specialty students is having trouble equalizing is an individual who should not be teaching for any Agency, and the fact that the other student evidently did not notice same about said buddy may be indicative of lax oversight by the dive shop in question.

Your bash of the Agency for the failings of the instructor and dive shop is something that has no place in this thread. :mooner:

 

[Hotpuppy]

"physical buoyancy reference"

Sorry, got distracted or interrupted while typing. Now I'm a bit tongue tied. Anyhow, the idea is that the line is a physical point of reference while doing your safety stop. I can stare at the line or clip something to it to determine if I'm drifting up or down. It's not necessary for me to hold the line. In this case the line was a piece of 1/2 rope. However, I'm accustomed to ropes on-land and lines on/in water. I own a 27 foot sailboat and there are no ropes on a sailboat. Only lines. My point here is to clarify so that nobody things I was referring to string, which is also sometimes called "line" in diving. :cool2: