What to do when an instructor is out of line?

[Hotpuppy]

I took back my rental tanks and had a long conversation with the shop manager. We sat down and had a rational and reasonable conversation. The shop owner walked in while I was there.

I believe that they are deeply concerned about the problem and are still in the information gathering phase. I confirmed that the shop employee who dove with us witnessed everything that went on from the instructor surfacing and beyond.

At this point it's not unreasonable for the shop owner to want to do his due diligence, get the instructor and course directors account and then get back to me. I put the appropriate cards on the table, was up-front about this thread, and upfront about initiating a QA action. I let him know that this isn't personal for me. I'm dissappointed and frustrated but willing to work through this and that right now my attention is on evaluating how far the problem goes.

I told the manager that I want to put a freeze on everything I'm doing. I have too many things going on right now with them. I explained that I want to cancel the unstarted class and the Flower Gardens trip, refund the balance on those.

I suggested that after we unwind the weekend's incident that we should revisit the DM class.

Right now the prudent thing to do is to let the LDS owner perform due diligence and then evaluate the response. Speculation won't contribute to the process. I have alot going on with the shop and most of the instructors are very good, and very professional.

So we are going to slow waaaaay down and get back to diving for fun with one class at a time. I'm going to look very hard at the NAUI Master Diver program later on. I like that better than what I see in PADI for now.

 

[jmasin]

This is someone I want to dive with. Been teaching people to fly airplanes all my life and this is exactly how it's done. And it perfectly highlights everything that is wrong with the f-ing idiot that was supposedly instructing you.

Agree.

to the OP: After all YOU are the STUDENT, HE is the TEACHER. You are bound to make some mistakes, it is his responsibility to make sure you learn from them, and to have prepared you for them so that little mistakes don't turn into big ones (i.e. separating means a minute of searching then surfacing, not 40 minutes of looking around).

I'm not saying you made a mistake, but EVEN IF YOU DID, there is no excuse for his alleged behavior. Even if you had made a SERIOUS mistake, he should have pulled you aside, sat you down and explained why it was so serious.

Maybe this guy had a bad day, but I wouldn't trust him with my knowledge/safety ever again...so he was right in one way, he'll never dive with you again.

It sounds to me a lot of little things went wrong on this dive... which consequently is always how serious accidents end up happening, it is never one thing, it is always a series of things that go wrong. Everyone above has already listed these items.

Good luck on a refund, I know it may end up being a waste of money, but move on, keep diving and enjoy the hobby/sport.

Get some more dives under your belt too! Cards are no substitute for experience. I felt really confident at 25 too, until I hit 50... Not insulting you at all so please don't take it that way!!!!

 

[Jax]

I took back my rental tanks and had a long conversation with the shop manager. We sat down and had a rational and reasonable conversation. The shop owner walked in while I was there.

I believe that they are deeply concerned about the problem and are still in the information gathering phase. I confirmed that the shop employee who dove with us witnessed everything that went on from the instructor surfacing and beyond.

At this point it's not unreasonable for the shop owner to want to do his due diligence, get the instructor and course directors account and then get back to me. I put the appropriate cards on the table, was up-front about this thread, and upfront about initiating a QA action. I let him know that this isn't personal for me. I'm dissappointed and frustrated but willing to work through this and that right now my attention is on evaluating how far the problem goes.

I told the manager that I want to put a freeze on everything I'm doing. I have too many things going on right now with them. I explained that I want to cancel the unstarted class and the Flower Gardens trip, refund the balance on those.

I suggested that after we unwind the weekend's incident that we should revisit the DM class.

Right now the prudent thing to do is to let the LDS owner perform due diligence and then evaluate the response. Speculation won't contribute to the process. I have alot going on with the shop and most of the instructors are very good, and very professional.

So we are going to slow waaaaay down and get back to diving for fun with one class at a time. I'm going to look very hard at the NAUI Master Diver program later on. I like that better than what I see in PADI for now.

Good for you! It's not often we hear about cool-heads and reasoning in our current climate of over-reacting and outrage.

 

[Mike Boswell]

It really shouldn't matter what the situation was or who was in the wrong. The bottom line to me is that a professional needs to act professionally. Cussing a student out is immature, plain and simple.

Also, in my unprofessional opinion, this dive needed a second DM following the group.

 

[reo]

If you are going to have your credit card company do a charge back, remember you have a limited time to exercise that option, usually 60 days. Check with your CC company to be sure you don't exceed your time limit.

Ron

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I took back my rental tanks and had a long conversation with the shop manager. We sat down and had a rational and reasonable conversation. The shop owner walked in while I was there.

I believe that they are deeply concerned about the problem and are still in the information gathering phase. I confirmed that the shop employee who dove with us witnessed everything that went on from the instructor surfacing and beyond.

At this point it's not unreasonable for the shop owner to want to do his due diligence, get the instructor and course directors account and then get back to me. I put the appropriate cards on the table, was up-front about this thread, and upfront about initiating a QA action. I let him know that this isn't personal for me. I'm dissappointed and frustrated but willing to work through this and that right now my attention is on evaluating how far the problem goes.

I told the manager that I want to put a freeze on everything I'm doing. I have too many things going on right now with them. I explained that I want to cancel the unstarted class and the Flower Gardens trip, refund the balance on those.

I suggested that after we unwind the weekend's incident that we should revisit the DM class.

Right now the prudent thing to do is to let the LDS owner perform due diligence and then evaluate the response. Speculation won't contribute to the process. I have alot going on with the shop and most of the instructors are very good, and very professional.

So we are going to slow waaaaay down and get back to diving for fun with one class at a time. I'm going to look very hard at the NAUI Master Diver program later on. I like that better than what I see in PADI for now.

Dude ... you should change your name to Coolpuppy ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

I'm glad it sounds as though you are going to work through a rational settlement with the shop.

I just want to take this opportunity to point out, for any new divers reading this thread, that this is a perfect example of the fact that descents, like ascents, are the time to take particular care to keep buddies together and in communication. Descents are when we find out our ears won't clear, or our inflator hose wasn't really securely fastened, or any number of other disconcerting things. It is not infrequent to need to pause on the way down to fix something, or even to abort the dive. Keeping a team together means such issues can be communicated quickly and efficiently, and buddies can help with stuff like hoses that have popped off, which may be difficult for the diver himself to fix underwater.

A lot of folks don't practice controlled descents, and just vent and sink and regroup at the bottom. That's never ideal but it can be okay in very clear water, where you can simply look up and see your buddy if he hasn't come with you. In our Puget Sound murk, that's a recipe for buddy separation, and can cause a lot of anxiety on everybody's part.

In my view, the instructor should have been behind the two of you, and you should have been side by side, rather than one behind the other swimming downslope. That way, the person with the most experience would have visual contact with both students, and the students would be operating as an independent buddy team, as they ought to do for maximal learning.

I have to laugh a little bit about the instructor screaming and shouting expletives, though. When I was an attending surgeon and supervising residents, I used precisely the approach that Diver0001 outlines. If a resident made an error, I would gently ask, "Do you think that was the best choice to make in that situation? How could you have done this better?" And darnit, they'd turn around and do the exact same thing the next day. I finally learned that, if I raised my voice and swore a little, they actually figured out that I was mad about what had happened, and then they'd change their ways

 

[ReefHound]

Well maybe a bit of measured emotion can be effective but the key word is "measured" and it has to be accompanied with constructive advice.

 

[halocline]

When I first read your story I thought that there must be a seriously different other side, because I can't imagine any trained instructor treating a student like you described. That sort of behavior is rarely an isolated occurrence, and so if the instructor is that kind of person, he almost certainly would have treated other students this way, there would have been many previous complaints, and the guy's career as a scuba instructor would be over.

But, then you posted the dive profile and it does look exactly like you described, so that certainly bolsters your credibility. Now I don't really know what to think, except to say that, if it happened as you say, I'm really sorry you had to go through that. Diving (and dive training) is supposed to be fun. Obviously life is too short to stay with that shop, regardless of the details of the actual event.

Good thing there's no shortage of dive instructors!

 

[FireInMyBones]

I am glad to see you considering things more closely with the shop. Best of luck.

[sm]

Good question. We typically dive in Houston at 288 Lake and Blue Lagoon. Both have excellent viz by comparison.

I would have no issues at Travis on the 30 and 40 foot platforms. I don't like dark, low-viz, cold environments.

In my experience, a DM should be comfortable in any situation, not just those (s)he likes the most.

I am not trying to discourage you from becoming a DM one day, but maybe waiting a little more would be better.

I'm taking DM primarily to bring my dive skills to a higher level. I enjoy diving and I like helping others.

This is a great reason to want to become a DM and I am glad that you want to help others.

I had an "am I ready" conversation with the Course Director, and Shop owner (who is a MSDT with more than 10 years of experience). I feel like I'm there.

AOW requires at least 25 dives, Rescue requires 25, and Master Diver 50. Doesn't Dive Master require 70? I am not familiar with PADI, but I am a DMC with SDI and I know those were the minimum requirements set before me.

Understand that I am not trying to cut you down, I actually wish you the best. I just want to make sure that you will be the best DM that you can be to help prevent situations like the one you described above from happening.[/sm]