What to do when an instructor is out of line?

[Hotpuppy]

I'm pretty confident that this will not be that hard to resolve.

"Unhappy with the quality of the goods and services." That's a specific chargeback reason that is difficult to dispute from the merchant side.

"Goods and services not delivered." Is another chargeback that is nearly impossible to fight unless you can prove delivery.

"Goods and services not delivered in full." Is another one that is nearly impossible to fight.

 

[Teamcasa]

You are in a tricky position getting a refund, nevertheless, I'd do all I could to get it back.

First realize that going down that path will sever your relationship with that Instructor and shop forever. However, based on how they have responded so far, you are better off.

I'd simply go in and ask for it. If and when they refuse, tell them of you intention to go on the Flower Gardens trip and that you will find a buddy to dive with you. In addition, tell them you expect to complete the courses that you have paid for but that you will be bringing an independent instructor to observe.

More than likely they will just hand over the money rather than have more people involved.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Fortunately I use a credit/debit card for everything.... so I still have chargeback rights and I know that system inside and out from my business experience.

I'm deeply dissappointed that I have not received a contact from them regarding this, and there is simply no excuse for not calling me in regards to this.

I've already sent this to PADI for QA. My specific complaint was verbal assault by the instructor and I gave them the exact words that were used.

Although the instructor's behavior calling you names is inexcusable, what SHOULD get PADI's attention is that the dive was conducted in a manner that didn't give priority to diver safety, and that the instructor lost control of a student ... and subsequently lost control of his own self-discipline as a PADI professional.

Piggybacking a deep dive class onto an OW class is also, to my concern, something that needs addressing ... and although I am not familiar enough with PADI standards to know whether or not it's a standards violation, it's really NOT what I would consider a safe practice.

You should be emphasizing these points, as they are some of the red flags I was mentioning earlier ... this shop is cutting corners, and in so doing they are impairing your safety as a student. I believe PADI will take safety issues far more seriously than behavioral ones on the part of one of their instructors.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ReefHound]

At this point, you'd probably get more out of just finding a good dive buddy and going diving. Once you get completely comfortable with the dives you're doing, and feel that your skills are at a level where you aren't putting much effort into using them well, then it's time to sign up for the next class.

Slow down ... in the long term, you'll be a much better diver for it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

To that end, let me throw in a plug for my dive club CHUM. We are a social dive club, active local divers, shop independent. We've had a lot of fun local dive events so far this year with many more planned. Next one is June 19 at Twin Lakes. Everyone, especially newer divers, are welcome to come out and join us, meet lots of new friends and dive buddies, talk about stuff, and get wet together. You will probably learn more about diving in general than any class could teach you, just being exposed to the diversity of divers who come from all agencies, use all kinds of different gear, have various preferences, but all share a common goal of safe and fun diving.

 

[Thalassamania]

Whew ... quite a thread.

My thoughts:

1. You were recruited into a DM class inappropriately. You were not prepared for it and the course itself is not designed to meet the needs (improving your diving skills) that you had. I suspect that it was the only offering the shop had that they could sell you.

2. Everyone on a dive, that includes all of the staff, has the right to thumb the dive, for any reason at all, without comment or recrimination. Perhaps your light signal was not clear to your buddy, but it sounds like no one in the group was clear about the "Rule of Thumb," a cardinal concept (at least in my mind) for diving safety.

3. Ditch the instructor, ditch the shop, do what you can through the credit card company, and if that doesn't work ... small claims court is a lot easier that most people think.

 

[Wookie]

And let me throw in that I know that your Flower Gardens trip is refundable, especially after weather and oil spill cancellations. If your shop tells you it isn't, I still have some small pull to get it so. Especially if you want to move your money to another trip/shop/CHUM.

 

[Herk_Man]

Just from your writing and the way you phrase and explain things tells a lot about you. You are careful, meticulous, responsible, and well spoken. The dive profile and the huge amount of info you've provided is too much to fabricate. And beyond that, no matter what you did or didn't do, no instructor should ever respond to a situation the way your instructor did. That is completely inappropriate. And even if he popped off out of stress he should have collected himself and let you speak your piece. At least then he could confirm for you that you were indeed an f-ing idiot if that was the truth.

I hope you got some contact info from those that witnessed his behavior and I hope that your communication with PADI results in someone else not having to have a similar experience.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

To that end, let me throw in a plug for my dive club CHUM. We are a social dive club, active local divers, shop independent. We've had a lot of fun local dive events so far this year with many more planned. Next one is June 19 at Twin Lakes. Everyone, especially newer divers, are welcome to come out and join us, meet lots of new friends and dive buddies, talk about stuff, and get wet together. You will probably learn more about diving in general than any class could teach you, just being exposed to the diversity of divers who come from all agencies, use all kinds of different gear, have various preferences, but all share a common goal of safe and fun diving.

Hotpuppy ... you ain't likely to get a better offer than that one.

If it was me, I'd jump on it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Herk_Man]

On the rare occasions when I have lost track of a student during a dive my first two questions upon finding them have always been the same:

- are you ok?
- what happened?

In that order.

Any other initial response from an instructor is beyond comprehension to me.

And even *IF* a student makes a blooper, which does not appear to be the case here, you have a reponsibility to them and to yourself as an instructor to treat the blooper as a learning/teaching moment..... and keep in mind that with a buddy separation it's as much the instructor's learning moment as the student's!

A couple of good follow-up questions for a student who has made a blooper are:

- What do you think of the way you responded?
- If you had to do that again, how would you respond?
- How do you think this could have been avoided?

and more directively,

- Did you think about doing XYZ? Why/why-not?
- What if I told you that XYZ is the best response.... How could you see the problem developing in time to do that?

and then finally totally directively

- here is what I would have done.... (XYZ)
- next time I would like you to do XYZ.... (explain)
- what you did isn't the best solution because XYZ is better.... (explain)

These are things that the vast majority of scuba instructors would have said/done. Breaking someone's balls, even if it *was* a blooper, doesn't help you achieve the result you want, namely a competent and safe diver. Hotpuppy still doesn't know what he did (I assume) that made his instructor think he was an f'n idiot. Maybe his instructor had some valuable thought in mind, but his inability to bring it has resulted in (a) no change (b) a student who is upset and still doesn't understand what his instructor wanted and (c) making himself look like an f'n idiot.

R..

This is someone I want to dive with. Been teaching people to fly airplanes all my life and this is exactly how it's done. And it perfectly highlights everything that is wrong with the f-ing idiot that was supposedly instructing you.

 

[GrandpaScuba]

Whew ... quite a thread.
1. You were recruited into a DM class inappropriately. You were not prepared for it and the course itself is not designed to meet the needs (improving your diving skills) that you had. I suspect that it was the only offering the shop had that they could sell you.

2. Everyone on a dive, that includes all of the staff, has the right to thumb the dive, for any reason at all, without comment or recrimination. Perhaps your light signal was not clear to your buddy, but it sounds like no one in the group was clear about the "Rule of Thumb," a cardinal concept (at least in my mind) for diving safety.

3. Ditch the instructor, ditch the shop, do what you can through the credit card company, and if that doesn't work ... small claims court is a lot easier that most people think.

I'm joining this discussion late. But Thal has it right. You really should not have been recruited into a DM class yet. I train SSI Divecons and the prereq's for Divecon are: Must have completed AOW, Rescue, Adult First Aid, Adult CPR, O2 First Aid and a minimum of 60 dives. (Personally, I'd up the minimum dives, but it's not my call.) If I read the original post correctly, you only had 25 dives.

Second, many divers forget, but we teach from the beginning that "any diver can call the dive for any reason."

#3 is good advice, too.