What is a "Dive"

[spectrum]

My wife and I start OW in February and we were at the LDS talking about what to expect in the class. When he talked about the checkout dives he said that they do 2 checkout dives without changing tanks or even getting out of the water since there is plenty of air most of the time. Then 2 more are done on another day.

Somehow in my niave little brain I had envisioned doing a full set-up, entry etc going progressively deeper each dive and performing skills then staying down "touring" until based on somebodys consumption it was time to end it. Then do a surface interval and repeat the process perhaps deeper and with other skills tested. Then more dives on another day.

What is the typical reality?

Thanks,
Pete

 

[HarleyDiver]

The ugly reality is your LDS (and a lot of others) often skimp, cheat & endanger people by doing the "minimum" the must to be able to call you certified.

You are being cheated. That's two dives they are describing, not four. Unfortunantly, a lot of people do it.

 

[jbd]

My wife and I start OW in February and we were at the LDS talking about what to expect in the class. When he talked about the checkout dives he said that they do 2 checkout dives without changing tanks or even getting out of the water since there is plenty of air most of the time. Then 2 more are done on another day.

Somehow in my niave little brain I had envisioned doing a full set-up, entry etc going progressively deeper each dive and performing skills then staying down "touring" until based on somebodys consumption it was time to end it. Then do a surface interval and repeat the process perhaps deeper and with other skills tested. Then more dives on another day.

What is the typical reality?

Thanks,
Pete

What you had envisioned is what should be occurring. Sadly, as HarleyDiver noted, all to often this not the case. As to what constitutes a dive--each agency has a definition of what meets the requirements to be considered a recordable dive for training purposes. Typically a dive is defined as 15 or 20 minutes at depth of at least 15 to 20 feet with at least a 10 minute surface interval. The dives are done in open water--the definition of which is sometimes debated here.

Once you are certified you can record any venture below the surface regardless of it being ocean, freshwater or swimming pool.

Two short excursions as you describe shortchanges the student.

Once you are certified, you can record

 

[MtnDiver]

Sounds like pretty skimpy checkout dives to me.

Our checkout dives were each full-up dives. Entries, submerging, skills, tour, safety stop, surfacing, exit. Changed out tanks during SI and had discussion of previous dive and briefing for the upcoming dive. We pretty much used most of the air in our tanks touring the area after our skills demonstrations were completed. The tours went until one of our group of 4 got down to a certain tank pressure, then up to the safety stop then surface.

I believe that the touring part of our dives was considered just as important as the skills demonstrations. We were being evaulated during the tours for bouyancy control and trim and were critiqued on what needed to be improved upon during the SI. I learned more on the 4 tours than I had in all the pool time, as far as trim and bouyancy control.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

With the utmost respect to HarleyDiver, I disagree.

Certainly doing two back to back 'dives' off one tank constitutes the minimum acceptable experience. And a process like you envisioned would be nice.

But being 'cheated' is buying one thing and receiving another. In this case, the dive shop owner has stated clearly "here is the experience your money is buying". If you don't like that experience, go elsewhere. Alternately, set up a custom one-on-one class that offers what you want, albeit at a more expensive price. But if you know in advance what you are buying, you are not being 'cheated'. You're only being cheated if you expect one thing and are actually given another. In this case, he's been up-front with how he runs his classes.

FWIW, most training dives focus on the skills to be demonstrated underwater. It is indeed pretty common to find courses that provide shorter training 'dives' that only give you as much time as is necessary to complete those underwater skills. If you want more, more is available, but you'll often pay more.

IMHO. YMMV.

Doc

 

[utnapistim]

My wife and I start OW in February and we were at the LDS talking about what to expect in the class. When he talked about the checkout dives he said that they do 2 checkout dives without changing tanks or even getting out of the water since there is plenty of air most of the time. Then 2 more are done on another day.

Somehow in my niave little brain I had envisioned doing a full set-up, entry etc going progressively deeper each dive and performing skills then staying down "touring" until based on somebodys consumption it was time to end it. Then do a surface interval and repeat the process perhaps deeper and with other skills tested. Then more dives on another day.

What is the typical reality?

Thanks,
Pete

Ok, I don't know what's typical; but i'll tell you how I went through it and you can compare;

I did the dives on weekends; typically I went there, went over part of the theory, then talked it over with the instructor, then I put my rig together (I was taught how before the first dive), then we went over the dive, exercises to do, where to go afterwards etc.

We did the dive, which was close around 50 minutes, during which we completed the exercises, then went further out looking around for about 20 minutes.

Then we came back, took the gear appart, cleaned it in fresh water, then went again over the exercises, what we had difficulties with (if anything), what we still had to do etc.;

Then, we usually stayed around for some time talking of various things; for example I had one of the instructors show me what he caried around in his spare parts kit and why he needed each of them (o-rings, allen keys, mask straps, hoses and so on).
One time I had one of the instructors take apart a second stage and show us each part in detail.

We did all dives in the same place, so we didn't go progresively deeper; you get to deep dives only when doing the AOW - at least so it was for me.


You seem to be doing a few minutes break in two dives you make, not four as required (that's my opinion at least). It doesn't sound like a very serious job for the instructor (and that's from somebody who's supposed to teach you how not to get killed)

You have much less time to go over the drills for various situations, and to benefit from your instructor's experience.

I also think it's important that you get to setup your own gear more than two times before you get out of classes (by the second time I was setting up my gear I was just remembering how to put it together correctly).

 

[Squalus]

I agree with Doc, you get what you pay for. I did research on the local instructors here when I first started to get what I wanted. Certifications dives were great, we had to snorkel out to the first 25' platform after doing a shore entry. Did our skills, 25 min at depth at completion 15' safety stop. Did a 45 min surface interval, changed tanks and logged dives and did the post dive critique. 2nd dive was a walk off and swim to the 30' platform where we did more skills, after everybody completed. We did our tour for bouyancy control. Another safety stop, then back to the entry/exit point, got out and did our post dive and dive logs. Day 2, back to the 30' platforms with a comprehensive review/test of all skills taught on the first dive. Went back and did the surface interval changed tanks and so on.... Last dive was another walk off, then we did our navigation with the instructors with us at 60'.

 

[down4fun]

I was just certified in May and for my checkout dives we did 4 full dives. Complete with boat entry, exit, switching gear, etc. For me the changing of the gear and the navigation of the boat: getting on, off, walking in your gear while the boat is riding 4 foot swells was as much a part of my training as the skills. The 4 dives were split over 2 days. Day one 2 30' dives on reefs with bottom time approx 30 minutes. Day 2 wreck dives at 60' with again about 30 minutes bottom time. Between dives we discussed what happened, improvements that could be made, reviewed tables for the second dive, and did predive planning.

As the consumer you have the right to shop around if you are not satisfied with what is offered. I personally would look somewhere else.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Not sure what agency you're going through, but PADI requires full disassembly and assembly of gear between all check out dives for the dive to be a true training dive. If the shop you're going through is PADI and they aren't doing that, they aren't following PADI standards.

And yes, the tour is an important part of the training dives. It give new divers a chance to increase their comfort level under water.

 

[HarleyDiver]

With the utmost respect to HarleyDiver, I disagree.


But being 'cheated' is buying one thing and receiving another. In this case, the dive shop owner has stated clearly "here is the experience your money is buying".
IMHO. YMMV.

Doc

Doc,
I see your point of view, and would probably agree with you in most cases.

I disagree on the subject of people getting trained, because they don't know what they need, or what to expect.

I feel any instructor/shop that gives you the very least they have to, is cheating you, reguardless of price. Its not about the money, it's about the training.
jmho