What in the he%$#

[PnL]

Personally I prefer back inflate and my wife does as well. Our experience with jacket-style BC's have been mixed. On the surface they really compressed the chest, making it difficult to breath. The solution to this would be to loosed the BC, which works great on the surface. But once you dump the air and you descend the BC is loose and the tank shifts around.

With the BP/wings setup that we have we never have chest compression from inflating the BC, and we've never had a problem with it pushing our face down. If we fully inflate it then it does have a tendency, but its nothing that can't be overcome by a slight lean backwards - or better yet, just lay on the wing

Likewise, the issues I've stated with jacket-style BC's can be overcome also. As it was stated previously, its a personal preference. The opinion of my wife and I is that back-inflates result is more comfortable bouyancy system which also places you in a proper horizontal trim easily. The opinion of SARmedic is that jacket-style is better suited

BTW - I don't see how 'wings' have less bouyancy than wrap-around bladders. A 36# wing should have similar bouyancy effect as a 36# wrap around bladder.

MHO

 

[SARmedic]

ScubaKims once bubbled...
On the surface they really compressed the chest, making it difficult to breath.

You probably have the fasteners too tight in the front.

When the fasteners are too tight, as soon as you inflate the bcd it will tend to constrict your chest (or if you have too much air in it as you enter the water), but it will probably feel tight even before then.

I have had many students tell me that same thing, and it is always because they have the bcd cinched down really tight. It is very common to want to tighten everything up as much as you can, but that's not always right. (Just like your mask, if you tighten that too much it may leak too...)

 

[PnL]

You are right - if it does compress you when the bladder is inflated then you can loosed the chest strap and cumberband. However, as I stated in my previous message, this results in a loosely fitting BCD when the air is released from the bladder to descend. The tank is not as stable because the BCD is lose. Some people have no problem wearing a BCD that is loose - I prefer a tank that is stable. Both my wife and I have been diving BP/wings and they are the most stable and invisible system we've tried. And this is the general concensus among our group of divers, although some use jacket-style and have no problems. Which is why I refrain from recommending either system and suggesting that Blue Space try as many different types as possible and see which works the best for him.

Again, YMMV.

 

[PnL]

I guess I should re-iterate that our group of divers don't all use BP/wings, only my wife and I. The others use back-inflate BCD's for the same reasons that my wife and I chose back-inflate. Its not for everyone, just our preference

 

[Ziggys_Friend]

As a fellow newbie - I'd say most LDS don't carry BP/Wings because they are a "nitch" item seen as only appropriate for tech divers (Not that I agree with that statement) therefore there just isn't the market/marketing hence few LDS's are going to carry them. Also, just as with other gear lines they don't carry, few LDS's (or any store for that matter) can keep themselves from putting down what they don't carry which is a shame.

Others know a lot more regarding there respective merits though from what I've learned, in open water safety isn't really the key issue.

All that being said, I've just ordered my own BP/Wings and my thinking was - I may want to go technical and even if I don't the thinking behind DIR and the like seems solid. I want to be the best/safest diver I can be and don't want to relearn and/or have to re-buy in the future.

~P

 

[detroit diver]

Ziggys_Friend once bubbled...
As a fellow newbie - I'd say most LDS don't carry BP/Wings because they are a "nitch" item seen as only appropriate for tech divers (Not that I agree with that statement) therefore there just isn't the market/marketing hence few LDS's are going to carry them. Also, just as with other gear lines they don't carry, few LDS's (or any store for that matter) can keep themselves from putting down what they don't carry which is a shame.

Others know a lot more regarding there respective merits though from what I've learned, in open water safety isn't really the key issue.

All that being said, I've just ordered my own BP/Wings and my thinking was - I may want to go technical and even if I don't the thinking behind DIR and the like seems solid. I want to be the best/safest diver I can be and don't want to relearn and/or have to re-buy in the future.

~P

I think there's a bigger reason (although I agree with you) that they (LDS's) don't sell BP and wings. There is no up-sell for the future except a set of doubles wings.

When you sell a stab jacket, the new models come out every year. And you know that you'll be told about the new doo-dads available on the "improved model"!

With a BP and wings, unless you wear one out (highly unlikely) or run over it with your car/truck, it will be with you "forever". No fancy new colors,D-rings, clips, hubs, buckles, cumberbunds! New harness-about $10.00. Not much for the LDS to make here past the initial sale.

Which bouyancy device would you rather sell? Which one would rather own?

 

[viper3037]

Just a little note.I've used both and I personally feel that the Wing offers les obstruction and no squeez on the body as does a conventional BC.I find that when diving wrecks it seems that you can hold your position better and it is just the right BC for me. I have yet to hear or say anything bad about the wing type but with a little practice it is easier to dive in.
One draw back is that if for some reason something did go wrong it would float an unconcious diver on his/her face.

 

[ElectricZombie]

Blue Space once bubbled...
And if the bp/wing is better in some way why don't the LDS sell them.

Selling the BP/Wing would not be good for business. Once a customer has a BP/Wing, they have all they ever need. The LDS can no longer sell them whatever new BC came out that year. It would also ruin the LDS's claim that a different BC is needed for every type of diving.

Just like anything else, the LDS are dependant on repeat customers. Offering a BP/Wing would eliminate many repeat buyers. The LDS is betting that your average diver will be seduced into buying whatever piece of crap is hot that particular year. They give the illusion that this years "Super Tech Master Deep Adventure II" BC is better than the "Super Tech Master Deep Adventure I" BC of last year. They shout about a bunch of useless features, etc in a effort to confuse customers into buying whatever they are selling. The people who own BPs/Wings see through all this hype and stick with what works, costing the LDS more money. Most LDS's either do not know about the BP/Wing, or simply ignore them because they eliminate the repeat buyer factor.

 

[MikeFerrara]

There is another aspect that nobody has mentioned. If a shop dumps $20,000 into a Scubapro dealership they have to move Scubapro equipment to keep it. The same is true for other major manufacturers. If they can't sell Scubapro bc's they won't be able to sell Scubapro regs either (unless they can move $20,000 worth per year). The manufacturers do their best to tell the shops what to sell.

I also think that there is a shortage of good single tank wings on the market.

Most recreational divers, including shop owners and instructors have never been exposed to a bp/wing. If they were it was back in the days of the backpack and horse collar and they view the bc aas a big improvement. Some of these folks are unlikely to go back to any kind of plate long enought to find out what it's about. They're just teaching and selling what they have learned and bought.

 

[Blue Space]

to buy the Seaquest balance. Ya I know the bp/wing would of been a better choice but I have no plans to go into tech diving right now. But if I do decide to I will be getting a bp/wing and keep my Balance as a backup. Thanks to everyone for the input.


Brandon