What ever happened to RESPECT

[drbill]

I agree with much of what BIGSAGE136 said. Hilary Clinton said it best: "it takes a village to raise a child." I was raised in one such village (the Village of Northbrook, IL) and I remember my upbringing and carry those values forward to the best of my ability.

Doc

 

[jbd]

Can you really consider someone like that a member of society? It almost sounds like they're more surrounded by society than a part of it.

Thats probably pretty accurate and I think it stems from the changes noted by Bigsage136.

 

[medic_diver45]

I agree the media needs to reign themselves in, and we need to try to (if possible) get back to relying on basic facts to judge right and wrong. I refuse to allow my children to be educated in a public school....They will be taught at home, educated in a holistic approach, so that they can think for themselves, not so they can pass a test and garner more funding for a school. They will learn math and reading, yes, but along with biology, chemistry, history, and philosophy. They will learn German and music and they will learn, as I did to question anything that does not seem right. What is popular is not always right and what is right is not always popular.

If I took your "look up and live" comment wrong I am sorry but I feel I need to say this:
I don't necessarily believe that religion is the answer either..... Remember: no group in history is responsible for more suffering and killin than the Catholic Church....two words: SPANISH INQUISITION.....

If you are one of the rare blessed few who get religion right (and this has nothing to do with what you call your god, or under what name your group's tax shelter is listed), one of the few that religion makes a better person (someone who goes out and does things in the name of their god that improves peoples lives without requiring them to convert to your belief system) then I applaud you and I urge you to try to use that strength you find from your convictions to make the world a better place. For the rest of you: try this for once, don't force it down everyone's throats. Religion is like morphine....it works best and is safest when you take it in small doses. (Just for the record before anybody gets the idea that I'm an atheist: I am a practicing Episcopalian).

There was a movie put out a few years back, called Boondock Saints about two Irish Catholic brothers from South Boston who are convinced that they are on a mission from God to kill all the bad guys. At the end of the movie, they and their father catch up in a court room with a mob boss that killed a friend of theirs . The final speech that is delivered (before they send him off to answer to God for his crimes) in part goes: "Do not kill, do not rape, do not steal. These are principles, which every man of every faith can embrace..." The movie in and of itself is interesting, very well shot and if you are like me, very likely to start a debate over when it is appropriate and how far you should go to punish someone for their crimes.

The point is that we must conduct ourselves in a manner which all persons can see and respect. That is what I believe and it has nothing to do with my religious affiliation and it is in keeping with the teachings of any mainstream religious group I have ever heard of. This is not a religious diatribe, but rather an ethical pondering....most people don't seem to realize that they are seperate things.....

Steve

 

[medic_diver45]

This thread certainly falls outside SB's rules about political posts IMHO (as one who has been censored for the same in the past). However, it has remained respectful of the beliefs of others.

Only one rule is necessary... the Golden Rule (and I do not consider myself religious at all, but good rules are good rules).

Doc

Two more points: Voltaire put it best, "I may not agree with your words, but I will give my life to defend your right to speak them." We may not agree with someone has to say, but as long as they are not infringing on anyone elses rights, we need to recognize and defend their right to shoot their mouth off.

As for the Golden Rule.....you're right, a good rule is a good rule. I've gone from wanting to be a Presbyterian minister when I was in high school, to being a died in the wool atheist, to being an imperfect Episcopalian, but the basic rules that I have outlined here in my postings have never changed.

-Steve

 

[BIGSAGE136]

I agree the media needs to reign themselves in, and we need to try to (if possible) get back to relying on basic facts to judge right and wrong. I refuse to allow my children to be educated in a public school....They will be taught at home, educated in a holistic approach, so that they can think for themselves, not so they can pass a test and garner more funding for a school. They will learn math and reading, yes, but along with biology, chemistry, history, and philosophy. They will learn German and music and they will learn, as I did to question anything that does not seem right. What is popular is not always right and what is right is not always popular.

If I took your "look up and live" comment wrong I am sorry but I feel I need to say this:
I don't necessarily believe that religion is the answer either..... Remember: no group in history is responsible for more suffering and killin than the Catholic Church....two words: SPANISH INQUISITION.....

If you are one of the rare blessed few who get religion right (and this has nothing to do with what you call your god, or under what name your group's tax shelter is listed), one of the few that religion makes a better person (someone who goes out and does things in the name of their god that improves peoples lives without requiring them to convert to your belief system) then I applaud you and I urge you to try to use that strength you find from your convictions to make the world a better place. For the rest of you: try this for once, don't force it down everyone's throats. Religion is like morphine....it works best and is safest when you take it in small doses. (Just for the record before anybody gets the idea that I'm an atheist: I am a practicing Episcopalian).

There was a movie put out a few years back, called Boondock Saints about two Irish Catholic brothers from South Boston who are convinced that they are on a mission from God to kill all the bad guys. At the end of the movie, they and their father catch up in a court room with a mob boss that killed a friend of theirs . The final speech that is delivered (before they send him off to answer to God for his crimes) in part goes: "Do not kill, do not rape, do not steal. These are principles, which every man of every faith can embrace..." The movie in and of itself is interesting, very well shot and if you are like me, very likely to start a debate over when it is appropriate and how far you should go to punish someone for their crimes.

The point is that we must conduct ourselves in a manner which all persons can see and respect. That is what I believe and it has nothing to do with my religious affiliation and it is in keeping with the teachings of any mainstream religious group I have ever heard of. This is not a religious diatribe, but rather an ethical pondering....most people don't seem to realize that they are seperate things.....

Steve

Well spoken. When you open your soul to what IS, belief loses its meaning. Try something interesting. Suppose God is title?

 

[Hank49]

I agree that society as a hole has no respect for anything other than self servitude, but respect Has to be earned you can not respect someone just because they hold a high office.
If that was the case we would have to respect the likes of Hitler

Well said.

 

[imadiver2]

Sorry, I didn't realize that political discussions were not allowed. Although my first post wasn't completely politcal, just my take on alittle bit of current society. I guess I should have paid closer attention to the terms and conditions.

I have however enjoyed reading all of the posts. I actually like to hear other peoples thoughts and feelings about things. I think that is what helps people become a society.

btw... what else aren't we suppose to talk about?

 

[bwerb]

I sincerely believe that as we continue to "depersonalize" our societal interactions, we will continue to have greater and greater problems of incivility (which I believe is the greater parent of "respect").

As we move to the cities and become aware of increasing globalization, we completely lose the "individual" as a sacrafice to "the whole" or "greater good." It's ironic that a city of literally millions of people can be one of the loneliest places on earth. As we surrender our selves to become a number at the bank, at work, on our Cert cards, as a student etc. we add to the loss of self. The ultimate paradox and misdirection of media is the sad insistance screaming from every direction that "individuality" is only achieved though "conformity". (I love the ads which go on and on about "be your own person" by drinking this cola or wearing these jeans like the other billion people we want to buy our product.)

So what do we create? We have a youth caught between what they know in their hearts and spirits is true and what "socitey" is telling them is true...the great lie. We then generate alienated masses who realize that since everything they are told is crap, they might as well just look after themselves...the "me" generation got what it wanted. A huge mass of people who only care about themselves.

This has led to the insistance that anything which you say or do which could at some level or another make someone else feel bad is wrong or forbidden. Nice...what we now have is a school system which panders to the lowest common denominator, one where grade inflation is at an all time high...because heavens forbid that "little Steevie" should feel bad that he won't be able to get into college with his dismal grades, we might as well just dumb the whole thing down and what the heck...not even offer grades at the lowest levels...competition is so ego deflating.

Or...instead we could allow groups like Nambla to exist...who's to say that they aren't entitled to their opinions...do unto others and all that.

Or...we could sit by and accept it when the government decides to spend billions on an agency like the TSA, which we all know is total bunk...but some handwringer needs to "feel secure" that 75 year old grandmothers are having their nail clippers confiscated.

Or...we could ask the government for "more legislation" because his rights are impinging on mine...why not lobby for MORE government...how about more regulations for C cards? Anyone? Anyone?

Don't get me going on this...I'll start churning out C-Jay-esque length commentaries.

Unfortuntately, I really don't know what to do. I think that we've created a society in which we praise the individual at one level and then are upset when it turns out that given the choice, the majority of individuals only chose to care about themselves.

 

[Land Locked]

Religion and Politics, things that should be left at the door! If you really want to inflame people those are the two areas, so try and refrain from posts on those two subjects. I was raised to respect my elders and love my country. I see more and more disrespect from the upcoming generations; it seems they have not been taught respect and lack a base common sense on what is required in a civil society. Is it the parents lack of parenting skills, schools, media or in my opinion all of the above?
We could go on and on about current music, games and movies that ensight kids these days, but I see too many parents saying not my Johnny after they've gone a shot someone. Look to Columbine, were those parents really and truly involved with their children?
Was the school responsive and followed up on complaints before the disaster? Have we become a complacent society where small radical groups are gaining control and dictating what your children should learn and what we should think? I'm sick and tired of it. I feel it all boils down to the loss of the close family unit, schools and loss of religion, belief if you will!

 

[medic_diver45]

This has led to the insistance that anything which you say or do which could at some level or another make someone else feel bad is wrong or forbidden. Nice...what we now have is a school system which panders to the lowest common denominator, one where grade inflation is at an all time high...because heavens forbid that "little Steevie" should feel bad that he won't be able to get into college with his dismal grades, we might as well just dumb the whole thing down and what the heck...not even offer grades at the lowest levels...competition is so ego deflating.



Or...instead we could allow groups like Nambla to exist...who's to say that they aren't entitled to their opinions...do unto others and all that.

Or...we could sit by and accept it when the government decides to spend billions on an agency like the TSA, which we all know is total bunk...but some handwringer needs to "feel secure" that 75 year old grandmothers are having their nail clippers confiscated.

I don't agree with open admissions to colleges, sorry if you're not smart enough you aren't smart enough. That's the way it works. I was taking a course in basic German, and people were having problems (most of the class was actually) and it wasn't because German is a hard language to learn (it is no more difficult than the Spanish we are expected to speak because Pablo refuses to learn Ingles- I'm not dissing Mexicans....you try laying sod or moving bricks for 12 hours and tell me Mexicans are lazy....no your average white American is a slacker compare to the average Mexican. They have something we have long since lost in this country- WORK ETHIC). It was because the could tell what a noun was, what a verb was, what a prepositional phrase was. It was embarassing....the instructor (who was from Germany and speaks English as her FOURTH language) had to educate a class full of native English speakers on the sentence structure of our chosen tongue. How bad is that? I'm sorry, but some people are just f--kin' stupid and it's usually a matter of choice- they don't learn because they don't want to(and I only included the F word since it's the most appropriate adjective for this situation). Face it, Chris Richey (my brother by the way) is probably failing in life because: A. He's just stupid; B. He's lazy and doesn't want to learn. or C. Both

I don't think groups like NAMBLA should be allowed, because as I said they are advocating something that would be damaging to others or deprive someone of a basic right. It's just like the Klan, Neo-Nazis, militant minority groups (the "KILL WHITEY" people), etc. These groups don't deserve protection because the serve to advocate the rights of the few over the rights of all.

Yes, airline security is an allusion (Listen to George Carlin's take on this on the "YOU ARE ALL DISEASED" album....quite funny, but post-9/11 it hits a little too close to home) and TSA is a joke. Enough said.